Author Topic: A new summon charm(mainly for countering BP)  (Read 26864 times)

Louie

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Re: A new summon charm(mainly for countering BP)
« Reply #45 on: 02:27:31 - 08/01/10 »
I'm sorry, but there is! SP is a "balanced" strat and BP melee gear also...
[...]

You are playing the wrong game really. Neither Spirit or Blood Pact are balanced.
Blood Pact can be EASILY countered by most Short Gears out there. And it isn't hard to beat Spirit too.

You must face Spirit, Blood Pacters (which is a pretty general gear that even you can run), Magic Bursters, TankAurers and everything else in Coli to achieve a win yes. You can make a deck to win at least against 80% of the people you may find in colisum in what, 90% of the time.

Again I say. Your gear is weak for a Summoner at Lv. 44.
Blighted Woodling, Black Creeper, Mana Leech, Nymph, Star Gauntlets...

Summoners don't need a new cool awesome charm just to counter Blood Pact. Summoners were always one of the strongest classes in Estiah, and forever they will be.

I don't think you really tried yourself. Blighted Woodling would not solve my problems with zerkers and warloads while cause me to abandon some useful charms and also lower my damage. Black creeper is not good enough charm because it's less useful when dealing with magic and sp. And I had mana leech in my gear. Nymph... I can only say you are not familiar with Summoner's problem and Star Gauntlets is a lv45 charm. By the way, I need to say again what I mean "balanced" is not unbeatable when facing any opponents. But whatever,coliseum is just a casino. I don't care about the problem anymore and I won't open any new thread or reply posts to talk about it again. So let's end the post.  
« Last Edit: 02:29:36 - 08/01/10 by Louie »

Toben

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Re: A new summon charm(mainly for countering BP)
« Reply #46 on: 03:38:19 - 08/01/10 »
Don't mind Schutz, he just seems to be a little too eager to mini-mod and scare off new posters lately.

So you don't like Black Creeper because even though it's useful against melee, it's not so useful against spirit - but it seems to me that your proposed charm in the first post is also a dead draw against spirit. So...I don't get it. Also don't really get your resistance to using Blighted Woodling, seems like you don't have that many direct damage charms in your deck. Fury of the Elements is cool and all, but it's only 60 damage, split - it's not making you kill people as much faster as you think.

I do get that Blood Pact (and ongoing generally) is harsh on things like Blessing of the Earth, but well - that was true even before Blood Pact, even if Blood Pact makes it more true/more common. Blessing is really an anti-burst, anti-spirit charm.

Coliseum is a casino, sure, but you can play the odds. If you have a deck and you keep losing to melee, add in some more anti-melee stuff. Now yeah, I know, Murphy's Law, you throw in those Black Creepers or Blighted Woodlings, you'll wind up in an all-Pyros-and-Spirit bracket the next night; but keep track, over like a week or so, of what's popular, what's common, and eventually you'll get it right. And you'll get it right demonstrably more often than if you just decide that your deck can't be improved with any existing charms and expect the game to conform with the way you think your deck should be. I don't think there's anything wrong with your suggested charm (except that what summoners need most is group charms) but there are already summoner anti-melee charms out there.

Louie

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Re: A new summon charm(mainly for countering BP)
« Reply #47 on: 04:41:56 - 08/01/10 »
Don't mind Schutz, he just seems to be a little too eager to mini-mod and scare off new posters lately.

So you don't like Black Creeper because even though it's useful against melee, it's not so useful against spirit - but it seems to me that your proposed charm in the first post is also a dead draw against spirit. So...I don't get it. Also don't really get your resistance to using Blighted Woodling, seems like you don't have that many direct damage charms in your deck. Fury of the Elements is cool and all, but it's only 60 damage, split - it's not making you kill people as much faster as you think.

I do get that Blood Pact (and ongoing generally) is harsh on things like Blessing of the Earth, but well - that was true even before Blood Pact, even if Blood Pact makes it more true/more common. Blessing is really an anti-burst, anti-spirit charm.

Coliseum is a casino, sure, but you can play the odds. If you have a deck and you keep losing to melee, add in some more anti-melee stuff. Now yeah, I know, Murphy's Law, you throw in those Black Creepers or Blighted Woodlings, you'll wind up in an all-Pyros-and-Spirit bracket the next night; but keep track, over like a week or so, of what's popular, what's common, and eventually you'll get it right. And you'll get it right demonstrably more often than if you just decide that your deck can't be improved with any existing charms and expect the game to conform with the way you think your deck should be. I don't think there's anything wrong with your suggested charm (except that what summoners need most is group charms) but there are already summoner anti-melee charms out there.

For the part that I make you confused, let me try to make the explaination. I think Black Creeper is not good enough(but actually myself is not so sure about the conclusion). It supposed to be best suit when against melee opponent. But since I don't have many melee damage in my gear(even with "or" summons), they can be easily absorbed by Warloads(say,Battle-Forged Lance). Zerkers usually bring lots of EAs which makes mutiple Black Creeper less effective. Like Schutz suggested, I had Mana Leech in my gear and the charm is only good when you're able to get through opponent's ward. Also, I do think it would be better if I try to more or less focus my damage on magic instead of dual damage. And right, Fury of the Elements are not suit in summon's gear but it's such a balanced charm that I can't easily throw it away. For Blighted Woodling, as my skirmish experience it doesn't work well enough with Zerkers and Warload which are my main concerns. When you summon it, it doesn't deal any damage and its no use against Sp and in the long run I can't afford to abandon every single direct damage charm. Actually it is really good for opponents like magic or melee other than zerkers and warloads.

And yes, the proposed charm can do nothing with sp. Why? Because I'm just asking to give summoner more of a choice. I don't ask it to become something a summon charm like deal damage according to opponent's cpb or even with wp because I know people will say it is op.

The gear I build is not for SP or Pryos but tried to play most popular tactics(short desk excluded) with a possibilty to win. I agree that with more time maybe I'll find better use of current charms. You may find I'm a stubborn person but some of the suggestions I've already tried and I also tested a bit(maybe not enough). Thank you for your reply.  

Schutzengel

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Re: A new summon charm(mainly for countering BP)
« Reply #48 on: 05:48:19 - 08/01/10 »
Don't mind Schutz, he just seems to be a little too eager to mini-mod and scare off new posters lately.
[...]
You're wrong Toben.
I just think that his Blood Pact issue is the same issue anyone have with it. It is not a summoner's problem and I am sure a summoner is capable of winning against it. THOUGH Blood Pact is supposed to beat people who tries to sustain a longer fight, like Summoners and Tankers.

Louie. I am pretty sure your problems will be gone as soon as you hit 45 and have access to awesome Summoner charms, Like Bel, Gauntlets, Granite Golem...
And these are charms that won't mess with your deck if you are facing spirit or other classes (Bel is a Pyro killer).

Sometimes you just can't face something with your actual charms, but as soon as you level up and get access to better charms, you are done.

The same thing happens when people complain about pyro groups in Coli at 42 because of Erythic Flames. Ask Pyros what happen when they get Lv. 44, they reign just ends.
[20:01]   <wl>   that happens if you let schutz design a dungeon! only charms for himself :P

Louie

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Re: A new summon charm(mainly for countering BP)
« Reply #49 on: 06:27:29 - 08/01/10 »
    Yeah I know I will get a boost in the lv45 and I'm looking forward to see if things will be changed. Thank you for your reply,Schutz.
« Last Edit: 06:31:38 - 08/01/10 by Louie »

Gtxinsane

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Re: A new summon charm(mainly for countering BP)
« Reply #50 on: 06:30:06 - 08/01/10 »
Agree with schutz, in fact, even before they get their bel hathals and what not, summoners still tend to extend their summons so much that the damage offset dealt by the summons is enough to kill said zerk/warlord sometimes even Pyro by the time BP/Damage over Time really shines. There is no Balanced Gear in estiah, Zerks have to buildup a crapload of CPB early on else they get toasted, mobbed, zerged, purged, spirited or wooden sworded. Warlords need to stay alive long enough to stab people to death.

Also, i think it has been concluded that summoners are one of the most versatile classes out there, i don't really see any problem they should encounter. Heck, i get jealous of summoners because they have all those sweet extenders that no other class have.
Astroblade takes 899 magic damage(181 warded, 1 pierced)
Astroblade takes 1080 magic damageAstroblade takes 1080 magic damage

Louie

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Re: A new summon charm(mainly for countering BP)
« Reply #51 on: 06:34:56 - 08/01/10 »
Agree with schutz, in fact, even before they get their bel hathals and what not, summoners still tend to extend their summons so much that the damage offset dealt by the summons is enough to kill said zerk/warlord sometimes even Pyro by the time BP/Damage over Time really shines. There is no Balanced Gear in estiah, Zerks have to buildup a crapload of CPB early on else they get toasted, mobbed, zerged, purged, spirited or wooden sworded. Warlords need to stay alive long enough to stab people to death.

Also, i think it has been concluded that summoners are one of the most versatile classes out there, i don't really see any problem they should encounter. Heck, i get jealous of summoners because they have all those sweet extenders that no other class have.

Oh my, then maybe you really need to check how it works out in 40-51 coliseums. I don't want to discuss the problem anymore but I have to say you don't know the situation.

Gtxinsane

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Re: A new summon charm(mainly for countering BP)
« Reply #52 on: 06:59:51 - 08/01/10 »
Oh, was this for the post 40s? I never knew. Sorry about that then.
Astroblade takes 899 magic damage(181 warded, 1 pierced)
Astroblade takes 1080 magic damageAstroblade takes 1080 magic damage

Zenetar

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Re: A new summon charm(mainly for countering BP)
« Reply #53 on: 07:03:45 - 08/01/10 »
gogo 10 pages! :laugh:

Louie

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Re: A new summon charm(mainly for countering BP)
« Reply #54 on: 07:21:11 - 08/01/10 »

Also, i think it has been concluded that summoners are one of the most versatile classes out there, i don't really see any problem they should encounter. Heck, i get jealous of summoners because they have all those sweet extenders that no other class have.

« Last Edit: 07:27:22 - 08/01/10 by Louie »

Schutzengel

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Re: A new summon charm(mainly for countering BP)
« Reply #55 on: 12:29:55 - 08/01/10 »
Oh my, then maybe you really need to check how it works out in 40-51 coliseums. I don't want to discuss the problem anymore but I have to say you don't know the situation.
Summoners are still the ONLY class capable of summon decently AND still do ANY other role with no problem.
[20:01]   <wl>   that happens if you let schutz design a dungeon! only charms for himself :P

Louie

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Re: A new summon charm(mainly for countering BP)
« Reply #56 on: 12:55:47 - 08/01/10 »
Oh my, then maybe you really need to check how it works out in 40-51 coliseums. I don't want to discuss the problem anymore but I have to say you don't know the situation.
Summoners are still the ONLY class capable of summon decently AND still do ANY other role with no problem.

I think just let the post end is a better idea ^_^ This topic can be solved in the Class section.

Schutzengel

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Re: A new summon charm(mainly for countering BP)
« Reply #57 on: 12:58:55 - 08/01/10 »
Oh my, then maybe you really need to check how it works out in 40-51 coliseums. I don't want to discuss the problem anymore but I have to say you don't know the situation.
Summoners are still the ONLY class capable of summon decently AND still do ANY other role with no problem.

I think just let the post end is a better idea ^_^ This topic can be solved in the Class section.
You are the owner. Lock it.
[20:01]   <wl>   that happens if you let schutz design a dungeon! only charms for himself :P