Author Topic: Buffing and Boosting  (Read 13914 times)

Seasonaltnt

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Buffing and Boosting
« on: 20:00:53 - 10/17/09 »
Um, what are the buff and boost rates when we're talking about:
Penetration?
Extra Action?
Drain?
AoE?

Anything else?
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Manores

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Re: Buffing and Boosting
« Reply #1 on: 20:46:11 - 10/17/09 »
You don't need them. You'll discard them all anyway  :-*

Forgetful

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Re: Buffing and Boosting
« Reply #2 on: 21:32:53 - 10/17/09 »
charms with or without penetration get 100% of boost.
EA get only 20% from ongoing boosts.
drain gets 65% of boosts.
AoE gets 130% of boosts (i believe that applies only against multiple targets and the damage is split equally for each).

Ixia

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Re: Buffing and Boosting
« Reply #3 on: 22:00:15 - 10/17/09 »
Forgetful, I've read other posts in the forum where you talk about reduction to damage modifiers or reduction to penetration.

...so what's the "state of art" by now?

Quote
charms with or without penetration get 100% of boost
but how about penetration loss??

THX in advance

Forgetful

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Re: Buffing and Boosting
« Reply #4 on: 00:10:52 - 10/18/09 »
- The damage formula has been reviewed. Damage modifiers will no longer be reduced when used on charms with penetration. Instead, the penetration will be reduced.
from patch notes.

haven't worked out the formula yet. sorry. the initial idea is here: http://forum.estiah.com/index.php?topic=3251.0
one thing's for sure. even if the formula is the same, the reduction coefficient is much bigger.
« Last Edit: 00:13:03 - 10/18/09 by Forgetful »

Ixia

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Re: Buffing and Boosting
« Reply #5 on: 02:34:26 - 10/18/09 »
THX! Very enlightening.

I read some other posts. Discarded that one becouse it was in the "suggestions" setion.

One question: Boost is ongoing as well as +to next, right?

Schutzengel

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Re: Buffing and Boosting
« Reply #6 on: 03:40:53 - 10/18/09 »
[...]
AoE gets 130% of boosts (i believe that applies only against multiple targets and the damage is split equally for each).
Where did you find this? I would like to know.

AoE gets 100% boost. Then, when it is casted, you divide by the number of the targets MINUS one. To a minimal of two.

Example:
Play With Fire, +75 to Next Magic.
Then, Rain of Fire (40 AoE).

You hit 4 targets.
75 [total buff] / (4 - 1) [targets] = 25 [buff] + 40 [rain of fire damage] = 65 [this is the damage you are going to do]

And I am 100% sure about it.
[20:01]   <wl>   that happens if you let schutz design a dungeon! only charms for himself :P

Zadown

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Re: Buffing and Boosting
« Reply #7 on: 05:10:31 - 10/18/09 »
Schutz -- that formula doesn't give the same results as this fight here:

http://www.estiah.com/character/combat/replay/id/11654342/owner/35968

Check out rounds 43, 44 and 45 -- +36 boost, two targets, the charm only gets +24.

Schutzengel

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Re: Buffing and Boosting
« Reply #8 on: 05:28:52 - 10/18/09 »
Schutz -- that formula doesn't give the same results as this fight here:

http://www.estiah.com/character/combat/replay/id/11654342/owner/35968

Check out rounds 43, 44 and 45 -- +36 boost, two targets, the charm only gets +24.

Of course not, cause the math is different when you face two targets.
It works perfectly against 3 or higher.

When you face just two targets, the boost is divided by 1.5

2 BDB does 36

36 / 1.5 = 24
24 + 22 = 46

Right?
« Last Edit: 05:32:34 - 10/18/09 by Schutzengel »
[20:01]   <wl>   that happens if you let schutz design a dungeon! only charms for himself :P

Zadown

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Re: Buffing and Boosting
« Reply #9 on: 06:02:14 - 10/18/09 »
Yeah, that makes sense. It was missing from your earlier explanation, though.

Forgetful

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Re: Buffing and Boosting
« Reply #10 on: 08:11:49 - 10/18/09 »
cool. thanks. it seems i'm the happiest one. i did some math on a gvg battle report so i ended up with +30%. your formula makes sense. from now on i'll blindly follow it.

Koralin

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Re: Buffing and Boosting
« Reply #11 on: 02:28:15 - 10/21/09 »
I've yet to see the 1.3*Boost/NumTargets formula fail by more than 1, which can come down to rounding, but I've seen the other one not fit at all.  The 130% one works for the aforementioned case--still 24 with rounding.  I don't have the exceptions for the other one saved though, I'll keep an eye out.  They tend to come out to similar values which is probably why people thought the other was right for so long.

Broodax

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Re: Buffing and Boosting
« Reply #12 on: 04:26:18 - 10/25/09 »
For some reason the example was edited out, but Nana was referring to multi-attacks with boost.

I'm not sure of the exact formula behind it, though it has been tweaked over time so that boosts don't benefit AoE attacks 1:1, otherwise boosts would be 4x as effective against 4 targets, which is definitely overpowered.

Here's a combat log that may give people a better sense of just how much boost benefits AoE.  (Edited just to show Destructobeam's boost)

Torq uses [Cleric Power Infusion]
Destructobeam's next magic attack is increased by up to 34

Destructobeam uses [Banishing Flame Stone]
Sasquatch takes 6 magic damage (27 warded)
Alastor takes 33 magic damage
Croissant takes 33 magic damage
Atomsk takes 33 magic damage

Banishing Flame Stone does 22 damage each, so that's 11 damage extra each attack against 4 players, a total benefit of 44 because of a 34 damage boost.  (Bringing 88 total damage up to 132) A little bit better than 1:1, but this is only for 4v4.

Your formula fits this.
The power boost reduction on AE depends on the number of target.
Against 4 players, CPI + BFS will do 33 damage to all
Against 3 players the same charms will do something like 38
If only one enemy is alive, those two charms will make 54 damage, the buff being applied to 100% as if it was not an aoe charm.

But it does not fit this.  38 - 22 = 16.  But 34 * 1.3 / 3 = 14.7, not enough boost.  Schutz's formula does fit, though: 34/2 = 17 (not exact, but note Lez said "something like"). 

Schutz has a fight linked in the best fights thread as well where he has 905 boost, with 301 applying to each of 4 targets.  905 * 1.3 / 4 = 294.125, again not enough, but 904/3 = 301.33, exactly right.

The reason you don't often see fights where the * 1.3 version doesn't work is that in a 4 player fight, multiplying by 1.3 and dividing by 4 is almost exactly the same as dividing by 3, so you don't notice the difference unless there's a huge boost.  The right formula is definitely the one schutz gave.

Lezard

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Re: Buffing and Boosting
« Reply #13 on: 16:17:25 - 10/25/09 »
These formulas are not meant to be secret, you just had to ask :)

AOE:
B' = B / ( Number of targets * 0.75 )

Penetration loss:
P' = P * ( 3 * Damage / ( 3 * Damage + boost ) )



Seasonaltnt

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Re: Buffing and Boosting
« Reply #14 on: 00:33:22 - 10/26/09 »
These formulas are not meant to be secret, you just had to ask :)

I did ask.  =P
But we know you're busy.  (:
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