Estiah Forum

Game support => Beginner tips => Topic started by: Shroud on 02:54:15 - 02/19/09

Title: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Shroud on 02:54:15 - 02/19/09
Seeing as there's a lot of acronyms and verbiage in the forums used that sometimes I had difficulty picking up, (what the hell was AoE, I always wondered... kept thinking Age of Empires...) I've decided to create/add a short glossary of acronyms, abbreviations for people lost. More for new people, as well as those who aren't well-versed in chat acronyms (like me). Feel free to add to the list; I'll update the main post once in a while.

Game Acronyms
PvP - Player vs Player ; 1 on 1 battles that involve 2 players matching charms
PvE - Player vs Environment ; basically, dungeon fights or arena battles
GvG - Guild vs Guild; battles between 2 Estiah guilds
EA - Extra Action; charms that have the "1 Extra Action" effect
WP - willpower; defense used against spirit damage
DKP (GHP) - Dragon Kill Points (Guild Honor Points); a name for "money" invented by players, used in guild. in estiah it's called guild honor points, they can be used to purchase charms in guild showcase.

DoT - Damage over Time; usually, poisons in Estiah, charms that deal damage/has a negative effect over several turns
AoE - Area of Effect; non-Estiah, spells/attacks that hit an area as opposed to an individual, in Estiah, charms that hit more than one character (i.e Rogue Death Dance)
HoT - Healing over Time. (i.e, Dozing Potion)
CPB - Constant Power Boost; stacking many ongoing buffs to do massive damage as the fight goes on
DpS - Damage per Second; amount of damage in one second of attack, commonly used in determining damage efficiency in most MMORPGs; in Estiah, it's more of amount of damage per turn.
DpT - Damage per Turn; same concept as DpS, just more apt for Estiah, since it's turn-based system; amount of damage per turn (let's change the culture! use DPT!)
RNG - Random Number Generator; computational tool used to determine sequence of numbers that lack any pattern; in Estiah, refers to the "randomness" element when you play charms from your gear.
OP - overpowered; a charm/gear set/etc that can easily affect the outcome of a fight; original OR
     - original post; a forum post considered first, or novel

LFG - Looking For Group; players use the acronym when looking for a guild in the recruitment forum
TCG - Trading Card Game; Estiah's battle system roughly based on battle card games, with many enhancements from MMO elements.
MMORPG - Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game; for the unenlightened... :)

Charm Acronyms
RK - Release Karma; wiki link --> http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Release_Karma
DH - Dark Heirloom; wiki link --> http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Dark_Heirloom

Dungeon Acronyms
KoNM - King of No Man (dungeon)
ACotE - A Cry of the Earth (4-man dungeon)
LEotT - Last Echo of the Thunder (4-man dungeon)

Class Abbreviations
Zerks - Berserkers
Pyros - Pyromaniacs
DK - Deathknight
Pally - Paladins

Terms and others
%P -  for Piercing/Penetration; percent of damage of charm dealt to a target with armor/ward.
cumul - cumulative (applies to armor/ward/wp)
Tank - individuals who specialize in taking damage; in group battles, they use Protect to receive damage in lieu of others. Normally uses lots of armor/ward/WP interchangeably used with "Turtle"
Turtle - individuals who normally use lots of armor/ward/willpower/debuffs in their charms in lieu of melee/magic charms; interchangeably used with "Tank"
Burst - as a term used in the forum, I think it means large amounts of melee/magic boost added to an attack. Highly likely taken from the Burst Skill.
Nerf - something "weakened"; no idea on the etymology, but it applies to charms whose effects were weakened for game balance.
Buff - on contrary to nerf, often used to describe improvement or strengthening for game balance.
Farm/Grind - repetitive action for a particular goal; i.e. grinding in the arena for gold/skills; farming a dungeon for charms/items

Waffle - Waffle refers to our veteran guild "Free Waffle", since they are very active and still sticking with us after
almost one year, most of players know them (especially their Waffle Inquisition led by the Waffle Overlord Kasyn)
WPS - Wolf Pack Samurai (my current guild, and a really good one; take note that this is not a recruitment run)

The inspiration for this comes from reading this --> http://forum.estiah.com/index.php?topic=1790.
*note to self: reading in-game meta, especially high-level meta, can make world go wacky*
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Alastair on 04:14:08 - 02/19/09
nerf - something "weakened"; no idea on the etymology, but it applies to charms whose effects were weakened for game balance.

What sort of childhood did you have that you never used a Nerf Gun?

Your poor deprived childhood...

:-D
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Shroud on 06:03:14 - 02/19/09
nerf - something "weakened"; no idea on the etymology, but it applies to charms whose effects were weakened for game balance.

What sort of childhood did you have that you never used a Nerf Gun?

Your poor deprived childhood...

:-D

Nope. Never. The pic from Wikipedia reminds me of the Ghostbuster toys though... :)
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Arimith on 06:12:03 - 02/19/09
Pyros - Pyromancers
Actually it's Pyromaniac.

Also might want to add

CPB: Constant Power Boost - stacking many ongoing buffs to do massive damage as the fight goes on.


Also, recommend sticky
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Shroud on 07:00:56 - 02/19/09
Pyros - Pyromancers
Actually it's Pyromaniac.


Gaahh... you're right. See? I'm so used to people calling Pyromaniacs "Pyro's", I got that wrong.... LOL. Pyromancer is the real-world dictionary equivalent though.  8)

Updated until here.
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Alastair on 07:31:41 - 02/19/09
I prefer Pyrophiliac.

I don't think that idea'd make Estiah family friendly, though....

:)
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Bactrian on 08:02:28 - 02/19/09
I prefer Pyrophiliac.

I don't think that idea'd make Estiah family friendly, though....

:)

Hemophiliac!

Woops, did I say a dirty word?
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Lezard on 10:12:58 - 02/19/09
Good idea, this post can be useful if it remains updated.
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Shroud on 11:09:47 - 02/19/09
Willing to do so... especially if this thread pushes thru... --> http://forum.estiah.com/index.php?topic=1891.0
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Nipal on 11:51:10 - 02/19/09
waffle refers to our veteran guild "Free Waffle", since they are very active and still sticking with us after
almost one year, most of players know them (especially their Waffle Inquisition led by the Waffle Overlord Kasyn).

most acronyms are actually "standard" words from mmorpg community. anyone with a mmorpg background
would know their meanings that's why we tend to use them quite naturally.

i'd add some more to the list as well :

buff : on contrary to nerf, often used to describe improvement or strengthening as in game balance.
tcg : trading card game. estiah's battle system roughly based on usual card games, with many enhancement of mmo elements.
dkp (ghp) : dragon kill points. a name for "money" invented by players, used in guild. in estiah it's called guild honor points, they can be used to purchase charms in guild showcase.
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Wolfsoul on 12:25:29 - 02/19/09
shroud, im disappointed... how have forgotten WPS?

WPS - best damn guild ewa!! WPS FTW!!!

wolf over and out!

Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Shroud on 12:40:17 - 02/19/09

most acronyms are actually "standard" words from mmorpg community. anyone with a mmorpg background
would know their meanings that's why we tend to use them quite naturally.


Does Runescape, Puzzle Pirates and Kingdom of Loathing count as MMORPG? lol.
Coz those are the only online stuff I played... :)
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Shroud on 12:42:38 - 02/19/09
shroud, im disappointed... how have forgotten WPS?

WPS - best damn guild ewa!! WPS FTW!!!

wolf over and out!


I didn't; made a conscious decision to be impartial, since this IS a newbie glossary (though I did put Waffle; didn't know the reference... and even if I did, I'd still put it from all the forum use it gets...  ::) )
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Ender on 18:39:19 - 02/19/09
HoT - Healing over Time.
LFG - Looking For Group

KoNM - King of No Man (dungeon)
ACotE - A Cry of the Earth (4-man dungeon)
LEotT - Last Echo of the Thunder (4-man dungeon)
(I actually haven't seen acronyms for the phoenix or the kraken...)

GMotD - Guild Message of the Day
BUT - Builds Under Tracking
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Kasyn on 10:28:38 - 02/20/09
You'd probably want to change DPS to DPT, as damage per second makes no sense in this game, whereas damage per turn is what the damage meters measure and goes with the battle system.
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Nipal on 11:43:09 - 02/20/09
actually i think dps is better than dpt even the latter is more appropriate to estiah battle system.
to me, dps has become a word with many meanings other than the literal "damage per second".

like "dps deck" means you're going to be mostly offensive. "need dps to party" means you're
looking for someone who can deals high damage to your party. "dps that guy" means to attack him.
almost nobody knows "dpt". i think that's why people mostly use the word "dps" while knowing that
"per second" is quite non sense in estiah battle system.
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Kasyn on 14:56:01 - 02/20/09
I use DPS too as I'm used to what it means from WoW, I just figured with it as a measurement in the new damage meters, and the fact that not everyone has played WoW or any real MMO for that matter it may be helpful just to go by what was literally in the game.  You're the dev though.  :P Maybe both, seeing as this is relatively informal anyhow?
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Nipal on 17:38:25 - 02/20/09
blizzard claims there are more than 12millions active wow players, i thought kids who didn't play wow at kindergarten got bullied nowadays.
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Popeye on 20:05:17 - 02/20/09
You'd probably want to change DPS to DPT, as damage per second makes no sense in this game, whereas damage per turn is what the damage meters measure and goes with the battle system.
Since this is supposed to be a guide for new players, it should use the term that other people actually use, not the term we think other people ought to use.

Add the term, "Farm".
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Earendil on 22:13:57 - 02/20/09
I always thought "nerf" came from Star Wars, as in "to make something slow, fat, and/or stupid like a Nerf."
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Kasyn on 02:18:14 - 02/21/09
You'd probably want to change DPS to DPT, as damage per second makes no sense in this game, whereas damage per turn is what the damage meters measure and goes with the battle system.
Since this is supposed to be a guide for new players, it should use the term that other people actually use, not the term we think other people ought to use.

Add the term, "Farm".

I've never used or heard DPS used in this game, I just use DDer (damage dealer) instead.  I was just suggesting something I thought would be helpful as an actual tangible measurement (like I said, because of the new damage meters), if you're quite done looking to jump on me for ridiculous nonsense we can move on.
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Shroud on 03:04:31 - 02/22/09
You'd probably want to change DPS to DPT, as damage per second makes no sense in this game, whereas damage per turn is what the damage meters measure and goes with the battle system.
Since this is supposed to be a guide for new players, it should use the term that other people actually use, not the term we think other people ought to use.

Add the term, "Farm".

I've never used or heard DPS used in this game, I just use DDer (damage dealer) instead.  I was just suggesting something I thought would be helpful as an actual tangible measurement (like I said, because of the new damage meters), if you're quite done looking to jump on me for ridiculous nonsense we can move on.

... I'll try to put in the idea behind the concept... DPS is used primarily in the Estiah forums... but if we can change the culture, why not? Everything started from something... :)

*updated up to here*
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Earendil on 07:45:22 - 02/22/09
It probably depends on which guild you're in... people who've played wow (or a lot of other hero-based games) are used to the term dps to refer to someone who focuses exclusively on high total damage output.  If you're not porting your terminology from another game, then something else like dpc or dpt or whatever might make more sense.  However, since so many people have already played other games, they'll already know the term dps.  Eh, whatever any individual likes is fine.
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Ztormur77 on 04:09:29 - 02/23/09
OP - Overpowered
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Nipal on 10:59:39 - 02/23/09
eh, DD means "direct damage" to me, as opposite to "dot" or other "indirect damage".
as OP can mean "original post", dunno who but someone definitely asked about it.
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Arimith on 12:15:40 - 02/23/09
as OP can mean "original post", dunno who but someone definitely asked about it.

Depending on context, may also mean Overpowered
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Earendil on 16:42:27 - 02/23/09
I play DOTA a lot, so DD means double damage to me - lots of acronyms can mean lots of things :-[ 

Maybe the philosophy of this glossary should be "whatever meaning people use the most often in these forums."
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Shroud on 21:32:50 - 02/23/09
Hahaha... I started this glossary after reading thru the "Balance discussion continued" thread.
I've based a large number of the information I put in here from that thread.  ::)
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Enigma on 00:13:31 - 04/30/09
Good list! :D

Something I went crazy over trying to decipher though is _% P for "piercing," so I guess it should be added to the list as well for other newbies' sake. :)
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Shroud on 04:26:55 - 05/25/09
Added the following to the OP:

%P - Piercing/Penetration
cumul - cumulative (used in armor/ward/willpower)
RNG - Random Number Generator
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Fenrir on 00:10:46 - 06/03/09
WSO-White Sealing Orb
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Srdja on 07:24:55 - 06/03/09
SnT or S&T - Slash and Thrust
WoL - Water of Life

those two are very commonly used these days.
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Dahya on 00:36:40 - 09/29/09
For those of you wondering about the etymology of the term "nerf," here's an interesting bit from urban dictionary:

Quote from: Urban Dictionary
   
The term "nerf" comes from the online gaming world of Ultima Online.

At one point in the game, the developers reduced the power of swords in melee combat.

This resulted in players complaining that it was like they were hitting each other with nerf bats, not swords.

From then on, if ever something gets made less worth while than it had been originally, it has been considered a 'nerf'.
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Yadhar on 14:30:31 - 04/16/10
hum....as i still have a lot of probs with abbreviations...

Well, few weeks ago, i was in Night tear, to run Last Echo. There was a semi-public party with that title :
"5 BCDs only pw 1"

I never understood what it means.... ::) B for banes ?
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Velkrin on 14:39:53 - 04/16/10
He meant BDC, or Blood Drake Curse.  Though I doubt you can pull off that strat since the nerf.
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Yadhar on 14:56:29 - 04/16/10
oooh....ok. Thanks  :)
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Arimith on 16:26:05 - 04/16/10
It can still be done if the first player is a champ and runs 5 Vital Points instead
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Wercool on 02:22:31 - 10/19/10
 :o
you forgot the best charm ever.
BP. refers to the charm blood pact
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Kanstrike on 19:27:24 - 07/28/11
So anyone able to explain what is meant by:

"25c woe pw bane"

Clearly bane is the password to join, but no clue what 25c or woe mean and this thread doesn't seem to explain.

Also, it's for Last Echo.  I just put together a heavy bane + extender set and joined...hopefully I don't screw anything up, heh.

Group went off: 25c means "25 charm deck" and "woe" must mean the woeful whip charm.
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Flame123 on 20:00:54 - 07/28/11
So anyone able to explain what is meant by:

"25c woe pw bane"

Clearly bane is the password to join, but no clue what 25c or woe mean and this thread doesn't seem to explain.

Also, it's for Last Echo.  I just put together a heavy bane + extender set and joined...hopefully I don't screw anything up, heh.

Group went off: 25c means "25 charm deck" and "woe" must mean the woeful whip charm.
25c means you use 25 charms in the gear you do the group with and Woe means use 5 Woeful's Whip a charm dropped from King of No Man
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Arimith on 02:34:50 - 07/29/11
Group went off: 25c means "25 charm deck" and "woe" must mean the woeful whip charm.
25c means you use 25 charms in the gear you do the group with and Woe means use 5 Woeful's Whip a charm dropped from King of No Man

apparently "25c" is a reference to the number of charms that should be in your gear, and "Woe" is short for Woeful's Whip, a neat charm that combos to give many Charm Alchemist points
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Toben on 04:46:01 - 07/29/11
So anyone able to explain what is meant by:

"25c woe pw bane"

A brief guide to semi-pub naming conventions:

pw - password; whatever follows is the password to the party. Putting the password in the name is what makes it semi-public instead of a private party.
(note: if your party name is long, but not too long to be allowed, the last word or two may get cut off; this is especially common if you put a short, one-letter or one-number password at the very end of a long-ish party name. Try not to do this. If you want to join a party but the password is cut off, popular short passwords you can try out are 1, a, x, and for Shudder, vb.)

# (a number in the name, e.g. 10, 15, 25) - refers to how many charms you should have in your deck
(exception: 4th (usually "4th tanks") - means the last person to join the party should do [whatever, usually tank])

melee, banes, or magic - basic damage strategies, your deck should focus on that method of delivering damage.
(note: "cpb" without a damage type is generally expected to mean melee cpb, except for Shudder, where magic cpb is the default.)

"I tank" (or iTank or something like that) - the person who set up the party is going to tank, so don't run protect or defensive charms

vitab or vb or vitaban - abbreviations for Vita Banishment (http://www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Vita_Banishment), so pack the charms used to make that combo - this is typically just for Shudder and in order of preference, bring: Ice/Flame, maybe White/Black, most people don't bother with Earth/Sky.

bdc - Blood Drake Curse. And you're generally expected to be packing Dynamite as well, if they're calling for BDC, so for example, "10c BDC" means you're expected to bring a deck that's 5x Blood Drake Curse, 5x Dynamite.

woe or woeful - Woeful's Whip, as mentioned, a handy way to get Charm Alchemist points.

Also take a quick look at the achievements for each dungeon - if folks are going for the achievement they will sometimes try bizarre ways of abbreviating the name of the achievement in their semipub party.

Lastly, don't try semi-pub Statues unless you are familiar enough with the game that you don't need a guide like this. Even then, don't expect to win much. ;)
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Kanstrike on 06:32:55 - 07/29/11
So anyone able to explain what is meant by:

"25c woe pw bane"

A brief guide to semi-pub naming conventions:

pw - password; whatever follows is the password to the party. Putting the password in the name is what makes it semi-public instead of a private party.
(note: if your party name is long, but not too long to be allowed, the last word or two may get cut off; this is especially common if you put a short, one-letter or one-number password at the very end of a long-ish party name. Try not to do this. If you want to join a party but the password is cut off, popular short passwords you can try out are 1, a, x, and for Shudder, vb.)

# (a number in the name, e.g. 10, 15, 25) - refers to how many charms you should have in your deck
(exception: 4th (usually "4th tanks") - means the last person to join the party should do [whatever, usually tank])

melee, banes, or magic - basic damage strategies, your deck should focus on that method of delivering damage.
(note: "cpb" without a damage type is generally expected to mean melee cpb, except for Shudder, where magic cpb is the default.)

"I tank" (or iTank or something like that) - the person who set up the party is going to tank, so don't run protect or defensive charms

vitab or vb or vitaban - abbreviations for Vita Banishment (http://www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Vita_Banishment), so pack the charms used to make that combo - this is typically just for Shudder and in order of preference, bring: Ice/Flame, maybe White/Black, most people don't bother with Earth/Sky.

bdc - Blood Drake Curse. And you're generally expected to be packing Dynamite as well, if they're calling for BDC, so for example, "10c BDC" means you're expected to bring a deck that's 5x Blood Drake Curse, 5x Dynamite.

woe or woeful - Woeful's Whip, as mentioned, a handy way to get Charm Alchemist points.

Also take a quick look at the achievements for each dungeon - if folks are going for the achievement they will sometimes try bizarre ways of abbreviating the name of the achievement in their semipub party.

Lastly, don't try semi-pub Statues unless you are familiar enough with the game that you don't need a guide like this. Even then, don't expect to win much. ;)

Thanks for this, while I've figured most of those out by now, how groups name/strategize/whatever is my current biggest issue with the game.  I've played plenty of MMO's so I know basic terminology but most of the grouping mechanics are specific to Estiah as far as I've seen and I don't want to mess up a group, while I still need to get in there to figure out the strategy used to defeat them and such.  And a list like this is precisely what I was looking for before I joined the group for an explanation, but didn't see in this thread (which I believe is where it should be).
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Renatov on 14:08:46 - 05/17/12
What does "destroy ward" mean? It's not in this glossary, neither in official FAQ's glossary. What would be the difference between a Fire card that does 12 damage (with no P%) and a Shadow card that does 10 damage + 2 destroy ward?
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Misha on 14:49:22 - 05/17/12
Destroy ward means exactly that.  It destroys ward.

If the shadow charm destroys ward before doing damage, then against a target with 2 ward, it would first destroy that 2 ward, then do 10 damage (because the target has no ward to block it).  If the target has 5 ward, it would first destroy 2 of that ward (3 left), then try to do 10 damage.  3 of that would then be warded, so 7 damage goes through.

In that example, the shadow charm is worse if the target has only 0 or 1 ward, because it will do 10 damage in both cases while the fire one will do 12 or 11.  If the target has 2 or more ward, they'll do the same damage.
Title: Re: Glossary of Acronyms, Shortened terms, and Whatnot...
Post by: Eschatos on 17:01:30 - 05/17/12
Actually on same level fire and shadow charms you will see that the numbers don't make "destroy ward" useless like the example you put, 12 and 10+2. It should be 12 and 10+4 or something like that, so that against warded opponents "destroy ward" is better.

Example lvl 10 vendor shadow and fire charms: Fire does 16 damage. Shadow does 14 dmg and 4 destroy ward. What that means, any target with more than 2 ward will take more damage from the Shadow charm, or have more ward destroyed. The same trend goes as level and numbers increase. Level 40 vendor charms, Fire has 58 damage, Shadow has 53 dmg +23 destroy ward