Estiah Forum

General Forum => Off-topic => Topic started by: Bactrian on 15:37:23 - 01/29/09

Title: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Bactrian on 15:37:23 - 01/29/09
Soo, I did a search of the forums and there wasn't a thread like this, pretty much the idea is to talk about whats been done/what needs to be done and also to see who the other wiki editors are, since the wiki itself doesn't seem to have much in the way of community or general article guidelines and that sort of thing. Also if people want to contribute but don't know how the formatting works, etc. then they could ask questions here for help (although the best way is to just look at the formatting for other articles).

The things I can think of are some of the T3 classes are missing their lists of charms and also the 2nd last patch rebalanced a few charms so they probably need updating. I've been filling in the Sage charms now I'm back in Zeal and almost done them all now. I also update the Terrorized Kitten and Timid Flying Broom pet pages with their diets... question time - when a food has no stat gain or loss, I've left it blank, is there a better way of showing it?

Yeaaap. Anyway, hi!
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Einar on 18:34:17 - 01/29/09
I haven't done any contributing to the wiki mostly as a time issue, but I think this thread is a good idea.  I recall one instance where there different formats being used which caused several of the pages to be reworked.

As for no stat gain I think I might just give it a "--"
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Ugluk on 19:04:21 - 01/29/09
Yeah, and no one tags charms any more with rune categories.  Thus clicking on the rune categories is pointless.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 20:25:26 - 01/29/09
I made the item template a long time back, and still bounce through new additions and see if people are using it :)

I imagine at some point, i'll dig back in the wiki and fix up CraftLoc entries on items :p
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Larcent on 20:53:55 - 01/29/09
I've been working on various edits and additions. We didn't even have a page explaining what "runes" even are, so I added that, and stuff on the auction houses, academies, and exhaustion.

I'm going to add the missing monk charms when I hit level 30 and join.

I have noticed some consistency variations and problem contributed to the problem give the lack of guidelines.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Popeye on 21:35:52 - 01/29/09
The shops were terrible until I fixed most of them up.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nyoko on 22:01:12 - 01/29/09
Added Splotch the Ferret [pet]
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 22:25:05 - 01/29/09
God... shops were such a mess in the beginning.

The best thing you can do to increase wiki goodness, is PM the IPs of people making bad edits and let them know :)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 23:20:26 - 01/29/09
I remade the pages of all dungeons since Lv15 I think, along with actually doing them... Tried to stick at an identical look'n'feel. Haven't contributed lately because I'm farming a lot the 4-players dungeons, that don't really need to be rewritten... But I'll be back soon... Fear me muarharharh !  :laugh:
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Larcent on 23:49:16 - 01/29/09
If there's something I've added/edited to the wiki and I'm not sure if I've got it right, I'll put a note in the discussion tab in case somebody has more information. If somebody knows how long an item stays in the auction house, I'd be happy if they'd put that info on that page, because I have no idea.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Aplsos on 00:28:37 - 01/30/09
I remade the pages of all dungeons since Lv15 I think, along with actually doing them... Tried to stick at an identical look'n'feel. Haven't contributed lately because I'm farming a lot the 4-players dungeons, that don't really need to be rewritten... But I'll be back soon... Fear me muarharharh !  :laugh:

Yeah, thanks for replacing the layout I was using for dungeons with a hideous nested list mess that looks like it belongs on a Geocities page warning about the dangers of water fluoridation.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Chronosz on 02:47:13 - 01/30/09
Good job wiki editers! You help me and my noobness!
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 09:56:08 - 01/30/09
Yeah, thanks for replacing the layout I was using for dungeons with a hideous nested list mess that looks like it belongs on a Geocities page warning about the dangers of water fluoridation.

I won't answer to that.

Edith : Ok, I'll answer...  :P Take this page http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=King_of_No_Man and this one http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=A_Cure and tell me which one seems to be the more readable and understandable...

Everyone works to improve the wiki. I'm very sorry if you feel like I've stolen your work or make it look bad, it was not my intention... But when I saw those big "blocks" of information, populated with so much red links, I felt the will to help make it better, that's all...  :'(
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Aplsos on 11:07:40 - 01/30/09
Edith : Ok, I'll answer...  :P Take this page http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=King_of_No_Man and this one http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=A_Cure and tell me which one seems to be the more readable and understandable...

For one, your layout takes up much more vertical space than needed.  People naturally scan pages in the shape of an F, from left to right, then top to bottom; you do not need to make each individual stat of each individual enemy take up its own line with its own bullet-point, those can be listed to the right of the monster's name.  Your use of headers causes the wiki software to automatically add a table of contents, which just takes up space in an article that shouldn't be more than a page long in the first place.  You use the same listing header for the enemy's attacks and its charm drops, forcing the reader to rely on locational context for the list's relevance, reducing scanability.  (To be fair, that last one's more of a nitpick.)

Everyone works to improve the wiki. I'm very sorry if you feel like I've stolen your work or make it look bad, it was not my intention... But when I saw those big "blocks" of information, populated with so much red links, I felt the will to help make it better, that's all...  :'(

The problem isn't adding information.  If you're going to go and completely replace a layout someone else made, you damn well better make sure it's better than what was there before.  "Don't fix what ain't broke."



dis post brought to you by the letter f, for "lookit that fat design nerd over there, gettin all serious-like over wikipedias!  HEH. ehehh"
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Wolfsoul on 11:15:46 - 01/30/09
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/be/Wikipedia_is_serious_business.jpg)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 11:39:10 - 01/30/09

For one, your layout takes up much more vertical space than needed.  People naturally scan pages in the shape of an F, from left to right, then top to bottom; you do not need to make each individual stat of each individual enemy take up its own line with its own bullet-point, those can be listed to the right of the monster's name.  Your use of headers causes the wiki software to automatically add a table of contents, which just takes up space in an article that shouldn't be more than a page long in the first place.  You use the same listing header for the enemy's attacks and its charm drops, forcing the reader to rely on locational context for the list's relevance, reducing scanability.  (To be fair, that last one's more of a nitpick.)

Ok, thanks for explaining your point. I think that your layout takes less place, yes, but because of it is less easily readable. When I started working on the wiki, there were 2-3 different layouts available, I chose the one I use because I thought it was the more easily readable. I may be wrong though.

Maybe other people should give their opinion on this layout thing. If they think your layout is best, I won't bother changing all the pages I edited to match it.

In fact, it would be a great idea to agree on a specific layout here, in this coordination thread, so that everyone will use the same ^^
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 13:29:22 - 01/30/09
cure feels a bit cleaner of a page. the headers make it a bit less of wall o text. I think skipping the Fight 1 and making the header just the name of the enemies is a better way to go though. I liked the use of Bold on king to emphasize the purposes of the different bullets.

I dont think each stat needs its own bullet though. Maybe just 1 for HP/SPI and make level part of the header, as its more or less irrelevent info outside of heroism?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Wolfsoul on 15:27:58 - 01/30/09
vener though of adding charm rarity? like:

Release Karma [Rare]

or this somehow screw ups links?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Popeye on 16:17:07 - 01/30/09
I prefer the Cure page over the King page, personally.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Larcent on 21:50:35 - 02/01/09
Just turned 30 today and made monk, so I added all those missing charms and other info.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Bactrian on 14:28:03 - 02/04/09
Hmm, Wolfsoul has a good suggestion, maybe not rename the pages but include it in charm descriptions? Or maybe it could be in the categories instead.. seeing all the epic charms in a category page could be sorta neat if you want to see teh purplez

thoughts people?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 14:47:46 - 02/04/09
I think it's a good idea, and renaming the pages wouldn't be a real problem. Also, It could be a good occasion to add a [Mob] tag, which is not present on all mob charms atm. If other people think this is good, I could work on it in the coming days.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Wolfsoul on 14:54:19 - 02/04/09
meanwhile, missing class charms:
T2
rogue
shaman
Guard
cleric
wizard

Also, we should upload estiah banner into first page.



Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Bedtime on 15:31:27 - 02/04/09
I'll put in all/most (if I can find an image of the ones I don't own) of the rouge and guard charms over the course of this afternoon.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Wolfsoul on 15:41:26 - 02/04/09
other question, should we keep this?
http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Trial_of_Intensity
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 15:44:40 - 02/04/09
I used to give no information about the Trial strategy, just like here => http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Trial_of_Ruse
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Wolfsoul on 15:48:31 - 02/04/09
Yeah, im for wiki to give information, not step-by-step breakthrough of dungeon...
this even gives gear set up, what makes me even more angrier is that it is written for wizards, not for berserkers, though its in our city >_>
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Bedtime on 16:14:30 - 02/04/09
I've done all the rouge, bar one twinblades requirements which the screenshot I have, doesn't have on (I think he bought it). Unless someone else can find it, it will be at least a few days before I can update the requirements.

Can't find my guard screenie either so I'll do them next time he goes past lumina.


I don't think we should tell players how to do it, especially the trials as they're suppose to be a test of gaining tier 3.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 16:34:46 - 02/04/09
Its not up to us what should/shouldn't be allowed on the wiki in terms of strategy.

Someone out there wanted everyone to know how to beat that trial, and they should be allowed to do it.

Beating the trials isn't exactly privileged info. Someone is going to the wiki BECAUSE they want spoilers, and theres multiple threads all over the forums how to do it as well. Nothing is really being gained here.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Wolfsoul on 16:43:34 - 02/04/09
But whole gear? common, it doesn't even contain charms witch surge uses...
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Ugluk on 16:47:30 - 02/04/09
I have to say, the WIKI is supposed to be information to help you design and plan your gears and crafting.  Giving a straight tutorial breakdown isn't really in the spirit of the thing.  If stuff like that is added it should be segregated into a "tutorial" section.  What's the fun of just a straight "do this" in a game?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 17:11:32 - 02/04/09
So add more.

Stick whats there as a strategy section or something.

I'm just sayin, theres nothing wrong w/ having it there.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 17:13:35 - 02/04/09
I think texts like "strategy for this trial" should be placed in the "discussion" tab for the dungeon page :)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Ugluk on 18:40:34 - 02/04/09
So add more.

Stick whats there as a strategy section or something.

I'm just sayin, theres nothing wrong w/ having it there.

I think texts like "strategy for this trial" should be placed in the "discussion" tab for the dungeon page :)

These are the things I meant when I said it should be segregated into a seperate "Tutorial" section.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Popeye on 20:15:19 - 02/05/09
It's not like it's out there spoiling the info for everyone. A reader has to click through to the discussion to see the spoiler, so only those who want a spoiler get one. Don't gripe because YOU don't want OTHER people to get the spoiler info - let each person make that judgment for themselves.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Wolfsoul on 13:15:30 - 02/06/09
http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Fury_of_the_Elements
Is this really an epic charm, i somehow doubt it?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Frostnova on 13:41:31 - 02/06/09
yes it is. it is an all purpose epic
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Wolfsoul on 13:45:20 - 02/06/09
crafted? dunno...dunno... something smells fishy around here...
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Bactrian on 13:54:53 - 02/06/09
I think it's the craftable-with-no-4-player-dungeons-required epic which lez or nip mentioned somewhere on the forums
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 14:01:17 - 02/06/09
Check last version changelog ;)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Larcent on 18:36:49 - 02/06/09
Jeez, somebody is really insisting in being a jerk about split damage. I edited and gave a better definition. I suspect he/she will edit it back again.

Dumb question: How do you link to a category in regular text without doing the category format? I tried to link to the Multi-hit category so people can more easily see the difference, but the link isn't working.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 01:32:58 - 02/07/09
add a : to the link like [[:Category: blah]]
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Groothewanderer on 03:16:34 - 02/07/09
I'm not great at editing but I have added and updated some entries and have urged my guild members who are technically capable to do the same.  It's a community effort.

I like the King format better than Cure

I agree the strategy should be allowed, but should be a separate page linked on the dungeon's page instead of directly on the page.  This way anyone can still see opponent and drop info and easily click the link for strategy which maybe says "Spoiler" or something.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Bedtime on 03:20:40 - 02/07/09
Just finished the guard charms.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Larcent on 01:24:52 - 02/12/09
I happen to be in Zeal, so I'm putting in the four new charms.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Chronosz on 04:16:31 - 02/17/09
Ice Scabbard is missing from the Narkels main page.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Popeye on 16:29:53 - 02/17/09
So...add it?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Chronosz on 16:36:54 - 02/17/09
no u
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Popeye on 16:38:51 - 02/17/09
lazybones
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Chronosz on 16:43:25 - 02/17/09
doody head
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Groothewanderer on 03:58:57 - 02/18/09
lol  :laugh:
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Xyzzy on 18:31:08 - 02/18/09
Since no one had yet created a Fluffy Furball page, I started one (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Fluffy_Furball).  Anyone who wishes to help fill out the food chart is more than welcome to.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Wolfsoul on 19:30:50 - 02/20/09
added new animals from animal garden
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Fenrir on 06:13:28 - 02/22/09
Been adding some of the class pages for the guild halls, did a lot of copying and pasting so some of it might not be from another class that I forgot to change.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Popeye on 20:54:48 - 02/23/09
I filled out some of the wizard charm list, and added placeholders for the ones I don't have on me. If they're still missing next time I'm in Inachis, I'll fill it the rest of the way out.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 13:40:17 - 02/26/09
About the previous suggestion to change Charms name from :

Charm name to Charm name (rarity)

I would like to propose a work on 6 templates to use, in order to have the same page layout in the wiki for each single charm of the 6 categories (Vendor, Craft, Class, Drop, Combo, Mob). Tell me what you think about it, and if you think it's worth a try... If so, I'll modify some of the existing charm by applying those templates...  ;)



Vendor Charms :

Alloyed Tellium Katana (Vendor)

*45 melee (20% P)

== Requirements ==
*Level 35
*256 [[Attributes#Dex|Dex]]
*224 [[Attributes#Pow|Pow]]

== Runes ==
*[[Sword]]

== Origin ==
'''Sold in''' [[Deadly Blades]] (700 gold)

{{Crafting}}
{{CraftLoc|city=Skyrift|shop=Weapon Enchanter|item=Hyphused Slasher}}


[[Category:Sword]]
[[Category:Vendor]]
[[Category:Charm]]



Crafted Charms :

Corrupted Fireblade (Craft)

*25 Melee (20% P)
*16 Melee drain (20% P)

== Requirements ==
*Level 44
*460 [[Attributes#Dex|Dex]]
*403 [[Attributes#Pow|Pow]]
*[[Sword]] (R5)

== Runes ==
*[[Sword]]

== Origin ==
'''Crafted in''' [[Draka]] '''from''' [[Narkel's Illusion Shop]] ''':'''
*[[Phoenix Feather]] x1
*Fee: 9,000 Gold

[[Category:Sword]]
[[Category:Drain]]
[[Category:Multi-Hit]]
[[Category:Craft]]
[[Category:Charm]]



Class Charms :

Life Siphon (Class)

*45 Melee drain

== Requirements ==
*Level 41
*[[Deathknight]] (R3)

== Runes ==
*[[Tech]]
*[[Sword]]

== Origin ==
'''Crafted in''' [[Eclis]] '''from''' [[Deathknight Trainer]] ''':'''
*[[Harvester Insignia]] x1
*Fee: 5,000 Gold

[[Category:Tech]]
[[Category:Sword]]
[[Category:Drain]]
[[Category:Deathknight]]
[[Category:Charm]]



Dropped Charms (Treasure, Rare or Epic)  :

Rapier (Treasure)

*12 Melee (20% P)
*1 Extra action

== Requirements ==
*Level 28
*177 [[Attributes#Dex|Dex]]
*155 [[Attributes#Pow|Pow]]
*[[Sword]] (R2)

== Runes ==
*[[Sword]]

== Origin ==
{{Found|where=Lumina|from=Escorting Chopley}} (Fight 1)

[[Category:Sword]]
[[Category:Extra Action]]
[[Category:Treasure]]
[[Category:Charm]]



Charm Combos :

X-Strike (Rare)

*57 Melee (20% P)
*Focus: 10

== Requirements ==
*Level 34

== Runes ==
*[[Tech]]

== Origin ==
*Two players using [[Strike]] in the same fight.

[[Category:Tech]]
[[Category:Focus]]
[[Category:Charm Combo]]
[[Category:Charm]]



Mob Charms :

Phantom Slash (Mob)

*7 Magic (15% P)
*7 Melee (20% P)

== Runes ==
*[[Sword]]
*[[Shadow]]

== Origin ==
*Miner Skeleton in [[Ghost Mine]]

[[Category:Sword]]
[[Category:Shadow]]
[[Category:Mob Charm]]
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Larcent on 16:54:01 - 02/26/09
I like that idea Azharh, particularly because there are mob charms that have the same name as player charms with different stats. There have been a few places in the Wiki where I clicked a link (or created a link) and went to the wrong charm. (I was having a devil of a time adding one of the shadow spells to the vendor charms because of that).

We may want to consider adding a little "Other Charms with Same Name" section at the end in such situations. Like at the bottom of the "Build Up (Class)" charm we can list the mobs that have their own version of the charm to help reduce the confusion.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Karek on 19:29:57 - 02/26/09
I like that idea Azharh, particularly because there are mob charms that have the same name as player charms with different stats. There have been a few places in the Wiki where I clicked a link (or created a link) and went to the wrong charm. (I was having a devil of a time adding one of the shadow spells to the vendor charms because of that).

We may want to consider adding a little "Other Charms with Same Name" section at the end in such situations. Like at the bottom of the "Build Up (Class)" charm we can list the mobs that have their own version of the charm to help reduce the confusion.
Create disambig pages.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Popeye on 20:36:53 - 02/26/09
Finished Wizard class charms.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Wolfsoul on 20:42:39 - 02/26/09
cleric and shaman left then!
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Popeye on 20:51:53 - 02/26/09
cleric and shaman left then!
Someone else will have to do this, then, none of my alts are either of these (berserker/rogue/monk/wizard/guard, p.s. monk is terrible :<)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nyoko on 03:07:57 - 03/02/09
New charm on Auction house that isn't currently craftable/droppable.  Can someone add it?

Banner of Courage
15 Melee (15% P)
55 Armor (cumulative)
Protect: 5

Requires Level 34
216 Dex   264 Con
Spear (R3)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Bedtime on 03:10:58 - 03/02/09
That charm is available from gaea's dawn in "Weapons of the Gods".

http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Weapons_of_the_Gods
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nyoko on 04:06:13 - 03/02/09
= o  Just never seen it on the AH before.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Almostfunny on 21:03:38 - 03/02/09
Added arena opponents for Triland, using the Inachis arena as a formatting example.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: James93 on 22:11:12 - 03/02/09
hey. I added strategies to use against the vampire at the end of Wildhowl Manor and for zell the faithless at the end of the Ghost mine.

they might not be the best strategies but they are the ones that i find work well  ::)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Wolfsoul on 22:46:33 - 03/02/09
(http://i41.tinypic.com/w8827m.jpg)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Popeye on 23:15:14 - 03/02/09
hey. I added strategies to use against the vampire at the end of Wildhowl Manor and for zell the faithless at the end of the Ghost mine.

they might not be the best strategies but they are the ones that i find work well  ::)
Should consider moving strategy to the discussion page on the wiki. Gives people a chance not to see spoilers.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nyoko on 01:47:21 - 03/03/09
The wiki, in itself, is a spoiler. 
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Wolfsoul on 12:23:51 - 03/03/09
but reading mob charms/attacks and understanding how to beat it is not the same as reading strategy how to beat it.
besides those strategies witch you included and other ones are all one sided, meaning to person witch can't use charms you listed there is pointless, so why bother? text like: "use armor and boost your attack" is ok, but not "use #1, #2, #5 and #69 charms, other wise you are screwed"
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 12:48:48 - 03/03/09
Should consider moving strategy to the discussion page on the wiki. Gives people a chance not to see spoilers.

Yeah, I thought we reached a consensus on that earlier... Tips are surely welcomed, but the "Discussion" pages are best suited for it. Wolf's points are relevant : almost all dungeon fights can be cleared using 2 or more different strategies... Charms descriptions are there to help people with building up a "personal" strategy knowing what they will face. It's up to them to choose the way that best suits their fighting style ;)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 13:11:48 - 03/03/09
Something totally different : I gave the "new template" thing a shot and modified "Crown of Prestige".

Here is the new page : http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Crown_of_Prestige_(Rare)
If you try accessing by using the old links : http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Crown_of_Prestige, you got a little nasty notice about the redirection  >:(
If you try the "Go" search, it doesn't work anymore with "crown of prestige". It does work with "Crown of Prestige" and redirects though...

Any ideas on how to make it better is welcomed. I think that the redirection notice is not a good thing, the search issue either... Maybe we should try to put the (Rare) info somewhere else, but I dunno how. Maybe just categorising it in a "Rare" category like I did is enough info ?

Please tell me what you think about it :)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 14:58:52 - 03/03/09
Pull charm rarity from the page name.

It just makes linking a bigger pain in the ass.

People can just put the text Rare after the link if they think its relevent
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nipal on 15:05:52 - 03/03/09
(i didn't follow the whole discussion)

 i'm just letting you know that two different charms can have the same name, like the new class charms coming in the
next patch, the rare and epix ones have the same name. hope this helps a bit whatever you guys are trying to do with
the wiki.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Wolfsoul on 15:32:41 - 03/03/09
well that clears everything, we need to add rarity/source of charm in link
actually its already done with strike
http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Strike_(Mob)
http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Strike
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 15:34:21 - 03/03/09
Maybe we should do that for Mob charms only ?  :'(
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Wolfsoul on 15:38:37 - 03/03/09
well nip said that there shall be two charms with same name but rarity and effects shall differ (thats probably new class charms for contest winners), so:
a) at normal charm add link to epix charm where its name shall be classcharm_(epix)
b) at normal charm add description of epix charm
c) make two diff pages with (rare)/(epix) in the links

well i like mostly b, cause there will be only one person who shall have those epix charms and nobody else shall be able to obtain it
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 15:40:19 - 03/03/09
I agree with that too
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Lezard on 17:47:47 - 03/03/09
I'm giving 6 brownies to whoever somehow makes a version of the Estiah logo for the wiki homepage, because it just aint cool as it is now.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nyoko on 18:19:39 - 03/03/09
I think only the host can
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nyoko on 18:27:44 - 03/03/09
Also, if someone is bored they could update...

http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Willpower
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Lezard on 19:11:03 - 03/03/09
I think only the host can

I'm sure if someone gives him a good enough picture, he'll add it
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 23:33:24 - 03/03/09
B is definatly the winner.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Smashy on 00:01:06 - 03/04/09
I've added a category (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Category:Steal_Modifiers) for charms that steal damage modifiers.  I think for now we only have Gorgon Shield and the new Slayer charm to put there, though.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Akecheta on 00:18:06 - 03/04/09
I'm giving 6 brownies to whoever somehow makes a version of the Estiah logo for the wiki homepage, because it just aint cool as it is now.

(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6048/estee.jpg)

?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Lezard on 12:01:58 - 03/04/09
I don't remember who's hosting the wiki, but could you try to see if that image fits well ?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Wolfsoul on 12:15:15 - 03/04/09
wasnt it greeezzzyyy?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Kasyn on 14:34:08 - 03/04/09
I'll yell at Grzy in AIM to throw that in there, though I think I have access for image hosting stuff too, as I'm basically second in command of the wiki.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Akecheta on 18:34:42 - 03/04/09
If you need different size, different colors or levels, transparency, whatev, just lemme know.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Popeye on 20:30:21 - 03/05/09
Added new Berserker charm.
http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Inhuman_Rampage
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 20:59:56 - 03/05/09
I created the following templates, for convenience :

{{Dex}}, {{Pow}}, {{Con}}, {{Int}} => displays the stat + hyperlink to the attribute § in the "Attributes" page.
{{Craft|where=city|from=shop}} => Display a generic craft sentence : "Crafted in city from shop :"
{{GuildCraft|from=building}} => Display a generic guild craft sentence : "Guild craft unlocked by building :"
{{Charm|type=charmType}} => Tag the charm page with the categories "Charm" and "charmType". Charm types are supposed to be : Vendor, Craft, Treasure, Rare, Epic, Class.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Larcent on 04:03:02 - 03/06/09
FYI, several of the T3 class charms are missing their crafting requirements. I believe Pyros and Warlords are missing their info, and maybe a couple of others (I can't recall which). Could be useful information for people trying to farm their marks before hitting 40 if any Wiki guys know the missing info.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Larcent on 07:08:08 - 03/06/09
Double-post to add: Smashy, I don't believe your change to the empowerment skill description is correct. The skill is boosted by playing multiple damage boosts and I am pretty certain they don't have to be tech charms. When I became a novice, I very quickly started gaining points in empowerment with the use of the novice weapons.

While strengthening may require actual buff runes, I am pretty sure empowerment is not tied to tech runes. It should be edited back.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Smashy on 07:39:53 - 03/06/09
Double-post to add: Smashy, I don't believe your change to the empowerment skill description is correct. The skill is boosted by playing multiple damage boosts and I am pretty certain they don't have to be tech charms. When I became a novice, I very quickly started gaining points in empowerment with the use of the novice weapons.

While strengthening may require actual buff runes, I am pretty sure empowerment is not tied to tech runes. It should be edited back.

Edited it.  See the discussion on that page.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Lezard on 09:41:42 - 03/10/09
I'll yell at Grzy in AIM to throw that in there, though I think I have access for image hosting stuff too, as I'm basically second in command of the wiki.

Did you get any news from him?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Almostfunny on 15:49:43 - 03/10/09
Noted that a number of jobs were available in Triland. Also added jobs to the job table: Lifemender, Church Armed Hand, Hitman, Dark Ritualist, and Gem Collector.

http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Jobs#Jobs (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Jobs#Jobs)

I'm trying to respect/copy formatting from surrounding code but I'm still learning the wiki ropes. If I'm causing anybody to grind their teeth over my edits just let me know and I'll change my ways!

Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Kasyn on 16:39:13 - 03/10/09
I'll yell at Grzy in AIM to throw that in there, though I think I have access for image hosting stuff too, as I'm basically second in command of the wiki.

Did you get any news from him?

Yeah he keeps saying says he'll do it then doesn't.  I think I'll have to drive to where he lives and steal his computer to do it myself, at this rate.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Bactrian on 12:05:08 - 03/11/09
With the new leadership and defender skills, they will probably need switching around on the skills page when we find out how many levels there are. atm defender is listed as a 1 rank skill for example, when its probably at least 2 like leadership is.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Smashy on 08:33:09 - 03/16/09
I'm working on the Marks, but I'm not using the template for the crafts so I can mention how many of each charm a Mark gets you.

p.s. if I see a single page edited 20 times in a row again I'm going to have to hurt people.  Just saying.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Kasyn on 08:41:21 - 03/16/09
Image on the front page was finally added, though Greeezzzyyy and I both agree that it would be a lot better with transparent background instead of flat white, as it clashes with the background of the actual wiki page.  If whoever has the original .psd could make that change and post the link I can yell at him until he changes it again.

I'd totally change the image myself but...eh.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Stjohn on 16:58:15 - 03/25/09
Bumping this topic. An important read to anyone who is looking to update this wiki.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Larcent on 00:46:01 - 04/01/09
I've created category pages for Aura, Bane and Curse (with glossary descriptions) should anybody feel the urge to go through and add these categories to existing charms where they apply.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Slalderma on 01:37:16 - 04/01/09
Shouldn't we make a [[ Event ]] category so that everything can get linked in there?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 01:37:33 - 04/01/09
Can we agree on a format for the new Discovery pages?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Aplsos on 01:44:07 - 04/01/09
I don't think discovery sites without events or shops need their own pages.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Slalderma on 02:00:52 - 04/01/09
Can we agree on a format for the new Discovery pages?

I'm editing in Skyrift now based on what was done for Night Tear.  Check it out and let me know.  You guys in #estiah?

Should think about categorizing the events by "marks" (2/3/5/shop/other) as it seems the drops are common to the same "ranked" event.  Makes it easier to sort out. 
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 02:04:02 - 04/01/09
Probably not, i'll go back and neuter the wildhowl ones :p

Also,

EventCraft template is up for things crafted in secret shops

{{EventCraft|city=(city)|event=(discovery location)|item=(item)}}
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Slalderma on 02:36:40 - 04/01/09
Been linking everything to [[ Exploration Site ]].
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Larcent on 03:17:02 - 04/01/09
Oy. I just now noticed that the wording of most existing aura charms have been changed so that you no longer have to divide out to determine the effect per round. It's now "+X during y rounds" instead of "+Xy over y rounds." Easier to understand, but will require tons of minor edits.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Slalderma on 03:52:13 - 04/01/09
Probably not, i'll go back and neuter the wildhowl ones :p

Also,

EventCraft template is up for things crafted in secret shops

{{EventCraft|city=(city)|event=(discovery location)|item=(item)}}

I'm betting that every 2-level event will give one of the same rewards; analogous situations with the 3- and 5-level.  It's the same situation as the Trial of xxx and the reward is always one of Breeze/Gust.  So we can link every discovery site inside the rewards/crafts or create generic 2-level / 3-level / 5-level category pages with the summary table of all the individual events.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 19:38:44 - 04/01/09
IMO, less clicks = better.

For a given item, its standard procedure to list everywhere you can get it.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Slalderma on 22:46:33 - 04/01/09
IMO, less clicks = better.

For a given item, its standard procedure to list everywhere you can get it.

So it is with http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Flashing_Gust so it shall be with everything else.  Ah-men.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 03:09:47 - 04/02/09
Yea Flashing gust is a bit of a pain, But exploration sites (so far) have enough variety in naming that it shouldn't be a total visual clusterfuck to put it on page >_>

If it becomes horridly shit, maybe we'll need to change it then.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Lyshka on 23:05:22 - 04/03/09
I updated the Guild Reward sections of all the items available with the Alchemy lab and Restaurant II.  I noticed that none of the food bought with Restaurant has been updated with the ingredient info, but I don't have any of that info any more.  If anyone could provide those recipe lists, I'll update those four items also.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Lyshka on 19:08:34 - 04/17/09
Guild information in general needs a lot of work on the wiki.  Right now there is nothing on GHP, the Showcase, Guild Wars, Guild Hierarchy (Guild Leader, officer, veteran, member), etc.

I'm updating the 'Guild Honor Points' page, but its going to create a lot of red links if anyone has the time to work on it.  I'll get to it at some point if it doesn't get done.

Starting a guild at level 20 was pretty confusing without some sort of reference page in the wiki.

Also:  Can optimal building boosters be put in the wiki or is that something that each guild needs to figure out on their own?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Slalderma on 19:22:43 - 04/17/09
Also:  Can optimal building boosters be put in the wiki or is that something that each guild needs to figure out on their own?

It's not hard to figure out with a little teamwork - it's a guild bonding experience for everyone to figure them out; I'm OK with that info not being in the wiki.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Shroud on 20:28:22 - 04/17/09
I like the new look of the front page of the Wiki.
It's more... organized :)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 22:10:03 - 04/17/09
It's not hard to figure out with a little teamwork - it's a guild bonding experience for everyone to figure them out; I'm OK with that info not being in the wiki.

I agree with you on this subject  :-*
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Larcent on 01:34:42 - 04/18/09
Errrr ... what's going on with the Wiki?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Chucktherighteous on 05:59:35 - 04/18/09
Also:  Can optimal building boosters be put in the wiki or is that something that each guild needs to figure out on their own?

It's not hard to figure out with a little teamwork - it's a guild bonding experience for everyone to figure them out; I'm OK with that info not being in the wiki.
I agree, that it shouldn't be completely revealed.  You don't necessarily need to tell the optimal but a little push in the right direction might be nice.  A few general hints to help people get started, without having to search all over the forums for the slightest clue.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 11:54:12 - 04/18/09
I agree, that it shouldn't be completely revealed.  You don't necessarily need to tell the optimal but a little push in the right direction might be nice.  A few general hints to help people get started, without having to search all over the forums for the slightest clue.

Have you considered trying items ? I can say that it exists a match [Building - Item category] for each building. So, if you try [Bamboo] as a booster and get pts in the [Building] skill, that means "Wood" items are boosters for this building ;)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Slalderma on 12:27:25 - 04/18/09
I agree, that it shouldn't be completely revealed.  You don't necessarily need to tell the optimal but a little push in the right direction might be nice.  A few general hints to help people get started, without having to search all over the forums for the slightest clue.

Have you considered trying items ? I can say that it exists a match [Building - Item category] for each building. So, if you try [Bamboo] as a booster and get pts in the [Building] skill, that means "Wood" items are boosters for this building ;)

There are only so many item categories that can be used as boosters - and if you've got multiple people in your guild, just assign them a booster type for each new building.  "OK Bob you take base metal, Charlie you get gems, Susan you get wood" and so on.  As soon as someone gets a successful build, then they post it in the shoutbox and it's found out.  It shouldn't take more than two days to figure it out :)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Groothewanderer on 16:57:30 - 04/18/09
There are only so many item categories that can be used as boosters - and if you've got multiple people in your guild, just assign them a booster type for each new building.  "OK Bob you take base metal, Charlie you get gems, Susan you get wood" and so on.  As soon as someone gets a successful build, then they post it in the shoutbox and it's found out.  It shouldn't take more than two days to figure it out :)

If Susan get's wood, wolf doesn't approve that.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Cymril on 20:29:11 - 04/18/09
Rewrote the article on Trial of Faith so it more inline with the other trials.  Mostly to get rid of the spoiler "Do this to win" that was the whole article before.  I think Domination, Salvation and Intensity should be changed to just showing what charms the mob has, and not how to beat them.  Unfortunately I don't have any replays of any of those trials, so can someone else do that?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Slalderma on 22:10:45 - 04/18/09
Rewrote the article on Trial of Faith so it more inline with the other trials.  Mostly to get rid of the spoiler "Do this to win" that was the whole article before.  I think Domination, Salvation and Intensity should be changed to just showing what charms the mob has, and not how to beat them.  Unfortunately I don't have any replays of any of those trials, so can someone else do that?

Showing the charms gives away the fight!
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Cymril on 23:46:04 - 04/18/09
Rewrote the article on Trial of Faith so it more inline with the other trials.  Mostly to get rid of the spoiler "Do this to win" that was the whole article before.  I think Domination, Salvation and Intensity should be changed to just showing what charms the mob has, and not how to beat them.  Unfortunately I don't have any replays of any of those trials, so can someone else do that?

Showing the charms gives away the fight!

I'm pretty sure you were there on IRC when we were talking about this. 

All showing the charms does it save 15AP the first time you try a fight.  As soon as you spend that AP, you're going to find out all the charms the boss is going to be using anyway.  Showing only the charms just saves someone from wasting a fight to scout it.  Rather than going in with a generic deck and pretty much guaranteeing a loss, you can go in with some semblance of a strategy (which, because the wiki only shows you the charms you'll be going up against, is something you'll have to come up with on your own by analyzing the boss' attacks and stats) and tweak your deck if you lose, instead of going in, losing, then building a deck.  The wiki is for convenience, nothing more.  Just like it shows you where you can get the items for a specific craft - It tells you what city/dungeon the ingredients are in, and what town you do the crafting at.  A player CAN find this out on their own, but that would take days of visiting every city in turn until you found the crafting location, then a week or more wandering around trying to buy up/loot the components.

Deck building is pretty much the foundation of Estiah as a game and one of the few strategic options we as players have for interacting with the game. Showing someone what they'll be fighting and telling them what deck to use are two completely different things.   
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Slalderma on 01:27:35 - 04/19/09
Rewrote the article on Trial of Faith so it more inline with the other trials.  Mostly to get rid of the spoiler "Do this to win" that was the whole article before.  I think Domination, Salvation and Intensity should be changed to just showing what charms the mob has, and not how to beat them.  Unfortunately I don't have any replays of any of those trials, so can someone else do that?

Showing the charms gives away the fight!

I'm pretty sure you were there on IRC when we were talking about this. 

All showing the charms does it save 15AP the first time you try a fight.  As soon as you spend that AP, you're going to find out all the charms the boss is going to be using anyway.  Showing only the charms just saves someone from wasting a fight to scout it.  Rather than going in with a generic deck and pretty much guaranteeing a loss, you can go in with some semblance of a strategy (which, because the wiki only shows you the charms you'll be going up against, is something you'll have to come up with on your own by analyzing the boss' attacks and stats) and tweak your deck if you lose, instead of going in, losing, then building a deck.  The wiki is for convenience, nothing more.  Just like it shows you where you can get the items for a specific craft - It tells you what city/dungeon the ingredients are in, and what town you do the crafting at.  A player CAN find this out on their own, but that would take days of visiting every city in turn until you found the crafting location, then a week or more wandering around trying to buy up/loot the components.

Deck building is pretty much the foundation of Estiah as a game and one of the few strategic options we as players have for interacting with the game. Showing someone what they'll be fighting and telling them what deck to use are two completely different things.   

Wasn't there but have heard these arguments before.  The difference between crafting locations and the trials is the difference between weeks of effort and moving and etc etc and 15 AP.  Once you know what charms the mob is going to play and how much spirit it has, there is no excuse for not beating the mob on the first try.  Giving away the mob charms gives away the strat to the encounter.  You don't need any further explanation on what to do once you've seen the charms.  It spoils the fight.  Lose 15 AP and figure it out.  That's been the consensus view for a long time now.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Cymril on 01:49:48 - 04/19/09
Ok,granted, I'll give you that.  But can we at least agree posting just the charms is preferable to "A battle against a high-damage, low-spirit opponent which must be turtled to be won."?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Slalderma on 02:06:31 - 04/19/09
Ok,granted, I'll give you that.  But can we at least agree posting just the charms is preferable to "A battle against a high-damage, low-spirit opponent which must be turtled to be won."?

I agree but feel that posting "A battle against an opponent for a Mark often required for obtaining tier-three class specialization and class-charm crafting" would be best.  Somewhere on these forums we'd agreed to put "spoiler" information on the discussion page for each trial.  This could include the mob charm listing.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Bactrian on 13:37:01 - 04/19/09
Hey guys, wondering what you think of making the main page titles clickable like
http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=User:Bactrian/mainpage (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=User:Bactrian/mainpage)

how it is now - http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Main_Page (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Main_Page)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 14:50:54 - 04/19/09
It looks fine, but the color of the links (purple and navy) are too dark for the black background IMO  :(
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Karar on 19:51:34 - 04/24/09
Just want to point out to whoever can edit the main page, the Battle Skills link points to the charm page for some reason.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Starwarskid on 11:04:56 - 05/05/09
enjoy the new main page. i hope you guys like it. not sure how to make a demo/test page so i just edited the page itself.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Enigma on 23:23:33 - 05/05/09
enjoy the new main page. i hope you guys like it. not sure how to make a demo/test page so i just edited the page itself.

Almost looks like an 8-bit Nintendo game's menu, which is cool.  :D
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Seth on 11:57:01 - 05/06/09
To be honest, I liked the previous one better. This is so colourless...

But of course if others like it more, I'll get used to it. :)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Shroud on 14:01:28 - 05/06/09
I preferred the prior setup; but as the venerable DK Seth said, that's just me :)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Starwarskid on 19:05:38 - 05/06/09
well i dont know how to do wiki style sheets, so changed them manually. hope the color scheme is easier on your eyes
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Seth on 19:27:56 - 05/06/09
the venerable DK Seth
That seriously stroked my ego.   :laugh:
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Forgetful on 07:50:56 - 05/09/09
the willpower list is incomplete. i wanted to update it but there's a {{willpowerchart}} written and nothing else. how can i access it?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 22:20:00 - 05/09/09
You want to navigate tooo...http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Template:Willpowerchart&action=edit

If you wanna ditch the template, feel free. I dont think its serving any purpose outside of a level of misdirection between whats on the page and whats editable at the moment.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 17:25:07 - 05/10/09
A little 'splash' added to the wiki via city images.  Most the images are a straight rip from Estiah at ~34k each.*  These images can be later compressed, but they help break the monotony of an all-text wiki.

* Not sure about the artistic license Lezard/Nipal have; hope this use is okay.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nipal on 13:30:03 - 05/11/09
you can use estiah pictures at will as long as it's estiah involved.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 03:53:41 - 05/14/09
Will a wiki mod please lock the following page:  http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Clock
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 06:00:50 - 05/16/09
Will a wiki mod please lock the following page:  http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Clock
The aforementioned page still needs a lock; page deletion does not work against bots.

Kasyn, please install ParserFunctions:  http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ParserFunctions

I'm at an impasse developing a dynamic city template (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Template:City) w/o capable conditional tools.  Apparently per Kasyn's discussion page, Xoid also has use for the library.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 05:16:31 - 05/19/09
Here's a shot of what I am attempting to accomplish:

(http://i44.tinypic.com/o8xm38.jpg)

This would expand upon the Template:City (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Template:City) I've already created and would be very clickable:  travel, dungeon, and guild hall links would all redirect to their appropriate page.

@Kasyn:  what's the hold-up w/ installing ParserFunctions (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ParserFunctions)?  Will you also install ImageMap (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ImageMap)?  If not, why?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 03:23:49 - 05/25/09
The former i believe is cus he has no idea what it is / may not even have the power to do it?

Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Darian on 14:08:57 - 05/26/09
I added a Guild Only (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Category:Guild_Only) category for all the charms which are not available outside of the guild showcase.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 14:12:44 - 05/26/09
Also created the "Treasure" and "Vendor" categories. Added the "Sold" template for charms available in Vendor Shops.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Kasyn on 19:15:27 - 05/26/09
It's both of those, Nastharl.  Greeezzzyyy is the one that can do all that and he's very randomly and fleetingly online, and even when he is it's dicey that he responds to me.  I'll keep trying.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Kasyn on 05:36:58 - 05/27/09
Both things are installed.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 07:27:45 - 05/27/09
Both things are installed.
Sweeet.   :D

Will someone verify the travel cities for Gaea's Dawn, Night Tear, and Triland?  My chars can't reach them and the data was absent from the wiki.

I'll get to the other sections (and a better color scheme) later.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 09:06:05 - 05/28/09
All 13 cities updated w/ the latest template.  I also uploaded compressed city images that 50-90% slimmer.  The color scheme was lightened 'cause I don't have access to the common CSS to change specific URL colors.  (Dark purple/blue on black was near-impossible to distinguish)

Let me know what you peeps think.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Chronosz on 14:24:15 - 05/28/09
I am not a wiki-genius like you guys. There is a secret shop in eclis with the same items in it as Manos Library. It is called Shadowmoon Cave. Feel free to wiki-magic that in there. :)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Slalderma on 14:35:12 - 05/28/09
I am not a wiki-genius like you guys. There is a secret shop in eclis with the same items in it as Manos Library. It is called Shadowmoon Cave. Feel free to wiki-magic that in there. :)

You mean this shop?  http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Shadowmoon_Cave  :D :P
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Chronosz on 14:40:05 - 05/28/09
It wasn't listed here: http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Crafting

So... Yeah. >_>
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 01:35:07 - 06/01/09
I've created a new template -- Template:SkillType (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Template:SkillType) -- that will help track which skill belongs to which category (i.e., battle, evolution, trade, renown).  While SeasonalTNT and I tagged most pages, there are several skills (e.g., Faith (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Faith)) for which I don't know which classification to use.

To utilize the template, simply add the following (at the end, commonly) to the document:
{{skillType|*}}

where * is one of either "evolution", "battle", "renown", or "trade" (sans quotes).

If Faith is a battle skill, this is what someone should inject:
{{skillType|battle}}

Tada!
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 06:43:59 - 06/01/09
Yet another template added:  Template:RankTable (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Template:RankTable).  The template page has description and implementation details for wiki helpers.  I've implemented it on the following pages already:  Sewer Cleaner (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Sewer_Cleaner), Courage (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Courage), and Sword (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Sword).

Not only does the template provide consistency and is easily-maintained, the "Level Unlocked" column was/is sorely needed on several skills.  Additionally, via the template, I can then easily classify skills as +POW, +DEX, etc., allowing curious visitors additional skill categories to browse.  :)

Some help in propagating this template to other skills would be both appreciated and straight-forward.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 08:53:08 - 06/01/09
About this template : it's really neat, but I'd have some little suggestions :

Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Manfromheaven on 10:48:47 - 06/01/09
Hi ,i must sasy it looks great what you did,but i think the courage lvl requirements are wrong, reason:
i am a lvl 36 guard who has mastered courage at rank 3, your list says rank 4 is unlocked at lvl 30 , but when i beat a lvl 39 shaman i did not get any courage, could it be that rank 4 is unlocked at lvl 40 ?
Here is the replay: http://www.estiah.com/character/combat/replay/id/5528271/owner/10657
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Forgetful on 11:12:26 - 06/01/09
erm... where did you read that courage is unlocked at lvl 30?
http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Battle
clearly stated that: Courage unlocks at 20, 30, and 40. so there are four ranks, first rank is available at lvl 1, second at lvl 20, third at lvl 30, fourth at lvl 40. you must have misinterpreted what was written.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Manfromheaven on 12:53:29 - 06/01/09
erm... where did you read that courage is unlocked at lvl 30?
http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Battle
clearly stated that: Courage unlocks at 20, 30, and 40. so there are four ranks, first rank is available at lvl 1, second at lvl 20, third at lvl 30, fourth at lvl 40. you must have misinterpreted what was written.

right here: http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Courage
at the thing Hrist made , and which is being talked about here atm
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Arthur on 13:04:41 - 06/01/09
where did you read that again?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Manfromheaven on 13:07:37 - 06/01/09
Yet another template added:  Template:RankTable (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Template:RankTable).  The template page has description and implementation details for wiki helpers.  I've implemented it on the following pages already:  Sewer Cleaner (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Sewer_Cleaner), Courage (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Courage), and Sword (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Sword).

Not only does the template provide consistency and is easily-maintained, the "Level Unlocked" column was/is sorely needed on several skills.  Additionally, via the template, I can then easily classify skills as +POW, +DEX, etc., allowing curious visitors additional skill categories to browse.  :)

Some help in propagating this template to other skills would be both appreciated and straight-forward.

right here
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Arthur on 13:27:09 - 06/01/09
your list says rank 4 is unlocked at lvl 30

R3 is unlocked at 30, R4 at 40, R2 at 20, end of discussion
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Manfromheaven on 13:38:37 - 06/01/09
i know, i just told Hrist that he got it wrong in his Template, so please no further comments to this (except by Hrist).
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 04:57:13 - 06/02/09
About this template : it's really neat, but I'd have some little suggestions :
  • "Level Unlocked" is too long. This require 2 lines instead of 1 and makes the table header too "big"  :( Something like : "Available" (header) "L.1" (table) maybe ?
  • Replace "+Pow", "+Dex"... by "Pow", "Dex" (header) and "1" by "+1" (table).
  • Have the content of the "Pow" column in red (except header that would stay gold)
Good suggestions.  I intended to maintain +X for the cells but the first iteration didn't allow it.  I implemented variants on the other two and configured the template to automagically register the skill in the appropriate +[Power|Dexterity|...] categories.  Check it out:  Category:+Intellect Skill (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Category:%2BIntellect_Skill)

Several skills aren't properly categorized.  Why?  'cause they're not using the template.  Convert the skill and the template'll handle the rest.  ;)

i know, i just told Hrist that he got it wrong in his Template, so please no further comments to this (except by Hrist).
The beautiful thing about an open wiki is that anyone can correct mistakes.  Thanks, Wolfsoul!  8)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 09:09:12 - 06/02/09
The new template is pretty awesome ! Gratz !  ;D
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Seasonaltnt on 03:49:37 - 06/14/09
I have sorta successfully created a new Charm template so that charms will be more like the cards in game format.  Visit this page:
Template:Charm2 (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Template:Charm2)

I have yet to add a description to this page on the wiki, so, bear with me, unless you wanna try to understand it for yourself; it's not that hard to understand any (:

Now, for all of you that are slick with wiki and the #ifeq template, please teach me cuz it'll surely be a great aid in doing this, I'm sure.  I don't understand it.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 12:32:50 - 06/14/09
I like your idea there. My suggestion would be to stick at the actual charm design, with sections like "Origin" and "Other information" outside of the template  :)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Seasonaltnt on 01:15:52 - 06/16/09
and I'm on a rampage.  Template:Item2 (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Template:Item2)

I kinda got bored, and wanted to make this more uniform.  And by doing this I've learned how to use {{#ifeq}}, so hurray.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 09:21:46 - 06/16/09
I think we should not make "too much" of it though... The wiki is a usefull tool that relies mostly on an epurate layout. Adding some fancy things like town pictures or charm frames is good enough, not need to format too much information in fancy layout though... But that's only my personal opinion...
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Starwarskid on 06:06:41 - 06/17/09
A bit late to the thread, but totally digging Hrist's city and rank templates. The charm/item templates on the other hand... its scary to think about how many pages would need to be converted.

EDIT: I also agree with Azharh that the charm/item templates should be 1:1 with the game layout, with the crafting, origin, other information outside the frame. I'm pretty sure the template can be set up that way, though I don't know how myself.

pseudocode:
<template>
<card>
 CARD/ITEM NAME
 CARD/ITEM EFFECT
 RUNES
</card>
<infobox>
 CRAFT LOCATION
 CRAFT MATERIALS
</infobox>
</template>

or something like that. player feedback and tips on the card would be outside of the template

EDIT 2: nevermind I see Charm2 template is in fact like this. its the Item2 template that has too much.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 03:35:01 - 06/19/09
A bit late to the thread, but totally digging Hrist's city and rank templates.
Thanks.  :D
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 03:59:12 - 06/19/09
So after doing a little bit of research, I found this page:  http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SpamBlacklist

This MediaWiki extension would be a significant boon in combating the wiki spam; especially in conjunction w/ a precompiled blacklist (http://blacklist.chongqed.org/).   8)  The SpamBlacklist extension allows support for dynamic black/whitelists by pulling directly from the database (i.e., a saved wiki page) -- a page which could be user-maintained to dynamically combat the spam w/o further sysop intervention.  The black/whitelist pages would, of course, need to be protected against anonymous edits.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Kasyn on 19:57:30 - 06/20/09
Just got Greeezzzyyy on it, should be done in a few minutes.  Unless he gets distracted or something.

Thanks wiki-people!

Edit - Stickied the topic too.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Starwarskid on 20:56:52 - 06/20/09
I have sorta successfully created a new Charm template so that charms will be more like the cards in game format.  Visit this page:
Template:Charm2 (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Template:Charm2)

I have yet to add a description to this page on the wiki, so, bear with me, unless you wanna try to understand it for yourself; it's not that hard to understand any (:

Now, for all of you that are slick with wiki and the #ifeq template, please teach me cuz it'll surely be a great aid in doing this, I'm sure.  I don't understand it.

So are we going to use this template from now on? I tried fiddling with it (Template:Charm3) but got too frustrated. I've a couple requests if its okay with you:
1. Make the card size be smaller, and use the minirunes instead of the full size runes, so it is more in line with game size.
2. Include another one of the #ifeqs for the case where the card only has 1 rune instead of 2
3. Add switch for Category:Showcase charms (even though the set of Showcase charms largely overlaps the set of Craft charms).

EDIT: in the end if we decide to convert all the charms, we can make it less overwhelming by each of us taking charge of converting one category of charms?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 21:02:50 - 06/20/09
A bit late to the thread, but totally digging Hrist's city and rank templates.
Not to repeatedly quote this adoration, but I just made them exceedingly more useful by converting the city profiles into a template and tagged every related inner-city event and guild hall w/ the appropriate profile.  I believe this both adds context -- e.g., in which city does this occur? -- and provides (limited but helpful) navigation abilities.

Example:  http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Inachis_Battle_Tournament

I have not tagged the exploration sites but they're good candidates for helper bees.  Assuming a page should have the Inachis city profile on it, here's how someone would go about doing it:

1.  Click [Edit] on the appropriate page.
2.  Insert the following single line of code at the top of the wiki page:
Code: [Select]
{{Inachis}}
3.  Click [Save Page]

Tada!  It should be noted that templates are case-sensitive.  Cities like "Night Tear" and "Gaea's Dawn" will require code like {{Night Tear}} and {{Gaea's Dawn}}, respectively.

Quote from: Kasyn
Just got Greeezzzyyy on it, should be done in a few minutes.  Unless he gets distracted or something.
Yay!   :)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Starwarskid on 23:11:01 - 06/20/09
A bit late to the thread, but totally digging Hrist's city and rank templates.
Not to repeatedly quote this adoration, but I just made them exceedingly more useful by converting the city profiles into a template and tagged every related inner-city event and guild hall w/ the appropriate profile.  I believe this both adds context -- e.g., in which city does this occur? -- and provides (limited but helpful) navigation abilities.

Example:  http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Inachis_Battle_Tournament

I have not tagged the exploration sites but they're good candidates for helper bees.  Assuming a page should have the Inachis city profile on it, here's how someone would go about doing it:

1.  Click [Edit] on the appropriate page.
2.  Insert the following single line of code at the top of the wiki page:
Code: [Select]
{{Inachis}}
3.  Click [Save Page]

Tada!  It should be noted that templates are case-sensitive.  Cities like "Night Tear" and "Gaea's Dawn" will require code like {{Night Tear}} and {{Gaea's Dawn}}, respectively.

The city context is quite helpful, but it seems you did most of them already anyways. I was wondering if you could put a small, say 5 px left margin though? the body text is ramming up right against it on my browser (firefox).
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 00:21:29 - 06/21/09
The city context is quite helpful, but it seems you did most of them already anyways.
I've only touched one exploration site:  http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Category:Exploration_Site

I was wondering if you could put a small, say 5 px left margin though?
Fixed.  Good call.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Starwarskid on 22:49:27 - 06/21/09
I propose the following method of doing charm templates:

Here is a demo on my userpage (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=User:H4ngedm4n), as I am making a replacement for the woefully incomplete former willpower charm template (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Template:Willpowerchart&oldid=19530).

The reasons for doing this are:

Unfortunately the pastel colors can't be avoided when using dark text, in the interest of readability.

EDIT: I went ahead and replaced the page anyway since it contains more information than the previous one.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Karek on 23:27:46 - 06/21/09
There has to be a better way to do that then that horrible color scheme.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 23:45:13 - 06/21/09
Alright, wiki-users, I need your help.  Either my chars cannot access, or are nowhere near to, the following cities to acquire the expected exchange rates for the wiki:

(can't access)
http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Draka#Exchange_Rates
http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Gaea's_Dawn#Exchange_Rates
http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Night_Tear#Exchange_Rates
http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Triland#Exchange_Rates
http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Windscar#Exchange_Rates

(not close)
http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Aleas#Exchange_Rates
http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Lumina#Exchange_Rates

If you can access an aforementioned city's marketplace, click [edit] on the wiki page and put in whole-number values (e.g., 96 not 96.3) since decimal precision is misleading w/ estimates.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Slalderma on 00:53:57 - 06/22/09
You understand that exchange rates are dynamic?  They do tend to float to a certain value, but wild swings are to be expected?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Starwarskid on 01:02:16 - 06/22/09
There has to be a better way to do that then that horrible color scheme.

I sure hope so. Help think of one  :)

I previously advocated just using the same color for the whole table, but doing so would undo one of the intents of existing charm tables. I put a demo flat color one below the colored version. At any rate, we need an alternative to the previous version mainly because the previous version costs too much overhead to update.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Starwarskid on 01:04:46 - 06/22/09
You understand that exchange rates are dynamic?  They do tend to float to a certain value, but wild swings are to be expected?

Yeah, im not sure if exchange rates on wiki could be implemented short of having bots pull that information every refresh. The closest we might be able to do without botting is maybe classify exchange rates as "high" "medium" or "low" value for each city.
for example, inachis tends to have everything at a medium-low rate, while off the top of my head, i recall eclis having high value for noble metal, night tear for animals, and triland for leather.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 01:24:36 - 06/22/09
You understand that exchange rates are dynamic?  They do tend to float to a certain value, but wild swings are to be expected?
That's why I worded the template and my post as "expected exchange rate."  Ignore the short-lived spikes and wiki the expected market exchange rate.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 08:57:15 - 06/22/09
I don't think updating exchange rates on the wiki is a good idea. Will require too many updates IMO. Plus, the risk of most of the info being up-to-date is too high... :/
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 14:02:44 - 06/22/09
Havnt checked this in awhile, but i'm kinda against having the wiki mirror too much the ingame formats.

Especially for the Items/Charms.

The wiki currently displays them BETTER than they are in game thanks to limitations of the in-game format.

No need to start changing everything because it can be changed.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 05:35:53 - 06/23/09
I don't think updating exchange rates on the wiki is a good idea. Will require too many updates IMO. Plus, the risk of most of the info being up-to-date is too high... :/
Allow me to recommunicate my intent as I may have been too concise.

Every commodity (e.g., gems, leather) in every market has a "stable" price [percentage].  This is, in mathematical and economic terms, referred to as the expected value or expected cost.  Slalderma was very warm in mentioning "[prices] float to a certain value" as that is precisely the information I want to capture in the wiki -- the "certain value prices float to" (aka the expected value) for each city.

For example: in Inachis, almost everything is consistently between 92-96%; in Eversweep, base metals rarely stray from 117%.  What I propose w/ the "exchange rates" information is that we detail, for each city, approximately what that stable point is (e.g., 117% for base metals in Eversweep).  The wiki should not reflect by-the-hour market fluctuations because that information is too volatile.  Wikipedia isn't a stock ticker and neither should our wiki be a "current state" market indicator.

Make sense?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Starwarskid on 07:07:19 - 06/23/09
I don't think updating exchange rates on the wiki is a good idea. Will require too many updates IMO. Plus, the risk of most of the info being up-to-date is too high... :/
Allow me to recommunicate my intent as I may have been too concise.

Every commodity (e.g., gems, leather) in every market has a "stable" price [percentage].  This is, in mathematical and economic terms, referred to as the expected value or expected cost.  Slalderma was very warm in mentioning "[prices] float to a certain value" as that is precisely the information I want to capture in the wiki -- the "certain value prices float to" (aka the expected value) for each city.

For example: in Inachis, almost everything is consistently between 92-96%; in Eversweep, base metals rarely stray from 117%.  What I propose w/ the "exchange rates" information is that we detail, for each city, approximately what that stable point is (e.g., 117% for base metals in Eversweep).  The wiki should not reflect by-the-hour market fluctuations because that information is too volatile.  Wikipedia isn't a stock ticker and neither should our wiki be a "current state" market indicator.

Make sense?

The main problem is there is no way for subsequent editors to make meaningful contributions to the listed value, as a wiki does not have a tool for computing running averages. Let us use your 92-96% Inachis figure. Assume that I go to Inachis, and the exchange rate is 91%. I have no way of knowing whether 91% is an outlier or whether the previous 92% needs to be updated. What if the last 10 times I go to Inachis, the value was between 93-94%. Shall I tighten the margin, thinking that the previous 92-96% was too loose?  Either way, there is not enough information to make meaninfgul edits.

The second problem is without details on how the market mechanism works, we do not even know if a meaningful "stable price" exists. What is a stable price? Is there a hard coded value in the game, which tries to self-restore against player interaction? Or is it a one-way function completely driven by player actions? IIRC, the developers intend to keep the calculations as a black box, so we can never know for sure.

It would be much easier to just note consistently high and low demand item categories in various towns than trying to assign numbers.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 10:20:02 - 06/23/09
I tend to agree with Starwarskid, even if your point make sense, Hrist...
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Slalderma on 12:37:43 - 06/23/09
A solution is to add a footnote saying the prices were entered on such-and-such a date, are an expected value, etc etc disclaimer smallprint.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 14:05:31 - 06/23/09
we could also just say

low=90-110
med=110-120
high=120+

and then it'd more or less always be right :p
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Someon1 on 15:07:11 - 06/23/09
I could model this fairly easily if you provided enough raw data (Rates as a function of location and time) ;)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Slalderma on 16:17:21 - 06/23/09
I could model this fairly easily if you provided enough raw data (Rates as a function of location and time) ;)

No - it's player influenced.  If a player (or players) sell a ton of luxuries in a city that exchange rate will take a nose-dive over the course of several hours.  If they buy noble metal, the price will increase over several hours.  If no further activity occurs, then the price will tend to float back to its "natural" level.  The market is somewhat "free" in this respect.  It's not a matter of modelling, it's a matter of dynamics.  And a static wiki can't account for player behavior.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Someon1 on 16:34:05 - 06/23/09
No - it's player influenced.  If a player (or players) sell a ton of luxuries in a city that exchange rate will take a nose-dive over the course of several hours.  If they buy noble metal, the price will increase over several hours.  If no further activity occurs, then the price will tend to float back to its "natural" level.  The market is somewhat "free" in this respect.  It's not a matter of modelling, it's a matter of dynamics.  And a static wiki can't account for player behavior.

I understand that it is dynamic, but that doesn't prevent one from finding an analytical model to describe its behavior ;)

I would do it if someone offered the data to me, but I doubt that that will happen ^^
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Jutetrea on 17:13:32 - 06/23/09
If you do a google search on greasemonkey scripts/Estiah at one point someone was making a script to accumulate market trend data and submit to a central location to be posted.  It hadn't been updated in quite a while so I doubt it is still active. 

Even without trying to get absolute %'s, its still good to know that Eversweep USUALLY buys food at a higher level (somewhere around 110-120%) and sells x for cheap, or that wildhowl buys high on luxuries and zeal buys high on leather.   May even be worth just putting a small table together with Item category > good places to sell/buy.

Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Seasonaltnt on 19:19:20 - 06/23/09
I have sorta successfully created a new Charm template so that charms will be more like the cards in game format.  Visit this page:
Template:Charm2 (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Template:Charm2)

I have yet to add a description to this page on the wiki, so, bear with me, unless you wanna try to understand it for yourself; it's not that hard to understand any (:

Now, for all of you that are slick with wiki and the #ifeq template, please teach me cuz it'll surely be a great aid in doing this, I'm sure.  I don't understand it.

So are we going to use this template from now on? I tried fiddling with it (Template:Charm3) but got too frustrated. I've a couple requests if its okay with you:
1. Make the card size be smaller, and use the minirunes instead of the full size runes, so it is more in line with game size.
2. Include another one of the #ifeqs for the case where the card only has 1 rune instead of 2
3. Add switch for Category:Showcase charms (even though the set of Showcase charms largely overlaps the set of Craft charms).

EDIT: in the end if we decide to convert all the charms, we can make it less overwhelming by each of us taking charge of converting one category of charms?

I made the table that size so it could accommodate the large font size.  If it's made smaller, it's okay too.  and it's time to upload the minirunes, eh?  (:
I've also added a #ifeq for the requirements, and the runes.
Lemme know what you think now; I've still gotta work on the other information though.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Slalderma on 22:18:28 - 06/23/09
No - it's player influenced.  If a player (or players) sell a ton of luxuries in a city that exchange rate will take a nose-dive over the course of several hours.  If they buy noble metal, the price will increase over several hours.  If no further activity occurs, then the price will tend to float back to its "natural" level.  The market is somewhat "free" in this respect.  It's not a matter of modelling, it's a matter of dynamics.  And a static wiki can't account for player behavior.

I understand that it is dynamic, but that doesn't prevent one from finding an analytical model to describe its behavior ;)

I would do it if someone offered the data to me, but I doubt that that will happen ^^

You'd have to track the buy/sell for EVERY player over several hours in each town.  The data won't happen unless you convince a significant portion of the Estiah population to participate.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Starwarskid on 23:17:58 - 06/23/09
I posted a more detailed explanation on SeasonalTNT's Charm2 (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Template_talk:Charm2) wiki page, but I'd like feedback to placing charm information in templates so they aren't repeated. I think most of us can agree that Level 20 segment of Recruit's Armory (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Recruit%27s_Armory) looks nicer than the level 23 or 27 segments, all of which contain more information than Novice's Armory (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Novice%27s_Armory). However, the information is duplicated from the charm pages. If we have a template for each charm, it would reduce this duplication and consolidate information. I have a demo on my userpage (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=User:H4ngedm4n), under "Testing Nested Templates"

For those who cant be bothered to look at the wiki pages, we are talking tables that look like this:
{| border=3
|+Some sample charms for testing in a 2x3 table
|- valign="top"
|{{Sage Bright Feather}}
|{{Invoke Defender}}
|{{Blessed Gauntlets}}
|- valign="top"
|{{Invoke Defender}}
|{{Blessed Gauntlets}}
|{{Sage Bright Feather}}
|}


instead of:

{|
|valign="top"|
{|border="2" width=200px
|'''[[Hold Position]]'''
|-
|'''Effects:'''
*88 Armor
*Protect: 5
*Stunned for 1 action
|-
|'''Requirements:'''
*118 Con
*Armor (R1)
|}
|valign="top"|
{|border="2" width=200px
.
<snip>
.
{|border="2" width=200px
|'''[[Recruit's Bright Wand]]'''
|-
|'''Effects:'''
*29 Ward (cumulative)
*12 Magic (50% P)
|-
|'''Requirements:'''
*82 Int   100 Con
*Holy (R2)
|}
|}


The charm pages themselves will also include the template, for example, [[Sage Bright Feather]] will make use of {{Sage Bright Feather}}.

EDIT: The whole point of this is to allow for easy construction of class charms, vendor charms, craft charms on their respective pages. Also, it would help in setting up a table for guild showcase charms.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 04:19:04 - 06/24/09
Personally, I'd like to have as FEW graphics as possible scattered across the page.

The purpose of the wiki is to present information in a useful way.

Neat templates are fine if they're an ADDITION to whats already there, but i really dont want to see the existing format dissappear so everything is a graphic kludge.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 09:51:36 - 06/24/09
Personally, I'd like to have as FEW graphics as possible scattered across the page.

The purpose of the wiki is to present information in a useful way.

Neat templates are fine if they're an ADDITION to whats already there, but i really dont want to see the existing format dissappear so everything is a graphic kludge.

I totaly second that. I fought the Town template nice since it was quite "discrete". But the main content of the wiki should be text only. The purpose of the wiki - according to me - is to give out concise and sober information
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Seasonaltnt on 03:06:46 - 06/25/09
Okay then.  Instead of making look like the in-game charm, it just needs to be organized better.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 05:55:38 - 06/25/09
100% agree on organization++

Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Kasyn on 07:43:04 - 06/25/09
Anonymous users can no longer edit the wiki.

FREE RIDE IS OVER, MOTHERFUCKERS.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 08:59:48 - 06/25/09
Okay then.  Instead of making look like the in-game charm, it just needs to be organized better.

Yeah, that's why I used to reoganise some charms during my free time to make them use the exact same layout and templates :) But this work is damn long !  :P
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nipal on 13:58:52 - 06/25/09
Anonymous users can no longer edit the wiki.

FREE RIDE IS OVER, MOTHERFUCKERS.

uh, spam issues?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Element on 18:47:55 - 06/25/09
Anonymous users can no longer edit the wiki.

FREE RIDE IS OVER, MOTHERFUCKERS.

uh, spam issues?


insane amounts...a bot repeatedly spamming the same 2-3 pages for days on end...every few minutes.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 04:44:20 - 06/26/09
Sorry for the delay; I was working on my motorcycle.   :)

Regarding exchange rates:
Let us use your 92-96% Inachis figure. Assume that I go to Inachis, and the exchange rate is 91%. I have no way of knowing whether 91% is an outlier or whether the previous 92% needs to be updated. What if the last 10 times I go to Inachis, the value was between 93-94%. Shall I tighten the margin, thinking that the previous 92-96% was too loose?  Either way, there is not enough information to make meaninfgul edits.
Just to be explicit, the exchange rate template expects single values and not ranges.  (e.g., 91 not 92-96)

Assuming it even exists, acquiring the city's stable rate for any commodity will be tricky w/o the source code.  Nonetheless, adding a ballpark figure to the wiki is immediately beneficial.  Users can then make direct market comparisons and shop accordingly.  Even if we score a bullseye on the stable rate, the wiki would never reflect current market flux.  The important point is we at least informed the user of "hey, this is generally what the market looks like".  People expect rain in Seattle and sun in Los Angeles; even tho it's not always the case, the expectation benefits their planning.

If 93-94% is observably more consistent than 91%, change it.  If somebody observes otherwise, they might also change it.  (Wiki battles can be resolved pragmatically by leveraging statistics; given the number of active wiki editors, squabbles are improbable*)  Most users, I predict, will use the data as a reference point; especially if we explicitly mention the market variability.  I have attempted to document this via preamble:  http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Template:ExchangeRates/Text  If someone has constructive ideas to improve this text, they are encouraged to contribute.

* If wiki editors have nothing better to do than fight over the difference of 1-2%, talk to me.  I can suggest several Estiah wiki undertakings that will easily absorb your time.  :)

we could also just say

low=90-110
med=110-120
high=120+

and then it'd more or less always be right :p
We could, but the generalization is very lossy.  One city might consistently float around 92% and another around 108% but, under this suggestion, they'd be equivalent.

The template I created already provides gross generalizations via text decorations:
p in [90,110] == black
p>110 == green
p>120 == bold green
p<90 == red
p<80 == bold red

Color coding's been there since day 1.  If gross generalizations are your thing, ignore the numbers and use the decorations to guide your decisions.

I posted in this thread because I needed "wiki coordination" to grab some data that I cannot yet reach.  I did not expect a wall of resistance to an idea that is both helpful and already implemented.  (Even the templates are in-place on all cities; they just need numbers)

I don't have much else to say on this.  I believe you all understand the intent of my contribution.  Question is:  will you help or just niggle over how we'll never accurately pinpoint the exact value?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 15:06:05 - 06/26/09
A solution is to add a footnote saying the prices were entered on such-and-such a date, are an expected value, etc etc disclaimer smallprint.
Alternatively, what I'll start doing (for the cities I can reach) is record current market state on the particular market's discussion page.  (e.g., http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Template_talk:Aleas/ExchangeRates)

Recording data for a city is quick, easy, and helps identify patterns.  This should address the concern of editors not able to make meaningful contributions; by using data points we should all come to similar numerical conclusions.  (e.g., 93% appears stable for commodity X; commodity Y swings between 100% and 110%)

This will also provide, in the long-term, data for someone like Someon1 to perform more complex analysis if they desire.  :)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 16:15:53 - 06/26/09
Haha .. triple post!   :)

Here's an example of data accuracy perhaps being the greatest non-issue in this thread:  http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Template_talk:Zeal/ExchangeRates

The "Current" data is a mash-up of market rates plus subjective recall I created several days ago.  The data point is an objective market observation.  While the numbers aren't exact, the only items that draw my attention are Food (10% diff) and Alchemy (7% diff).  That leaves 14 of 16 commodities as showing little variance.

The overall market rates are probably not as jumpy as some people might want to believe.

Question is:  will you help or just niggle over how we'll never accurately pinpoint the exact value?

edit:
Eclis w/ 15 of 16:  http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Template_talk:Eclis/ExchangeRates
Aleas w/ 16 of 16:  http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Template_talk:Aleas/ExchangeRates
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Larcent on 21:03:00 - 06/28/09
Oh look at that. We have a bunch of new users!  :o
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 22:44:50 - 06/28/09
Those damn f*cking bots are everywhere !  >:(
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Starwarskid on 08:51:45 - 06/29/09
Those damn f*cking bots are everywhere !  >:(

im impressed tbh. determined spammers
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 06:23:42 - 07/01/09
Currently, we have pages (e.g., http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Spirit) that have a "Quick List" link to a template-but-not-functionally-a-template page (e.g., http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Template:Spiritcharmchart).  Why?  Why not just embed the "quick list" directly in the page, delete the template, and also delete the second user-maintained list which sits below the quick list?

This would save people the hassle of a click and consolidate two user-maintained (and sometimes unsynchronized) lists into just one.

edit:  Also, if you play Estiah please read http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Talk:Attributes  I already have levels 1-18 covered (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Attributes#Level) but it'll be a while before levels 19-50 are flushed out.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 17:03:52 - 07/03/09
Notice anything different:  http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Remorseless

View source for this simple gem:
Code: [Select]
{{jobList|skill=remorseless}}

This gets rid of the poorly maintained per-page job lists and provides significantly more information.  The skill= filter works on both the jobList and classList (i.e., academy classes) templates.

It'd be nice if volunteers would coordinate to disseminate this code on the other skills.  (If you use the wiki, why not help make it a better place?)  It's real easy to shout out "Dibs on A-G!" and use this page (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Category:Skill) to quickly access the skills.

Have fun.  Enjoy the weekend!
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Seasonaltnt on 17:56:36 - 07/03/09
I'm starting.  But I'm gonna look into the rank table later to reedit the page.

Except, I'm using this:
Code: [Select]
{{jobList|skill={{PAGENAME}}}}
You going to do the Academy stuff too?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Aplsos on 18:17:27 - 07/03/09
Why is that template showing Circus Fire-eater as a job that gives Remorseless?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Starwarskid on 19:18:55 - 07/03/09
Why is that template showing Circus Fire-eater as a job that gives Remorseless?

Thats should be easy to change, but in the original job list it shows the same thing. Does Circus Fire-eater actually give Remorseless and Reflexes in game?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Seasonaltnt on 19:19:54 - 07/03/09
Fixed it.  That's what you get for copypaste x)

@Starwardskid:  No, it doesn't.  It's only the knife thrower.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 20:00:06 - 07/03/09
Why is that template showing Circus Fire-eater as a job that gives Remorseless?
Good catch.  There was a small bug in my parser that erroneously affected six jobs.

You going to do the Academy stuff too?
Huh?  It's already done.  Instead of jobList use classList:
Code: [Select]
{{classList|skill={{PAGENAME}}}}

I kept the templates distinct since few skills overlap and I didn't want to overengineer a solution.  :)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Seasonaltnt on 20:01:25 - 07/03/09
Oops, sorry, didn't read that part of your post.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Starwarskid on 20:28:13 - 07/03/09
I like this setup with a master job template, and being able to filter out portions for the various evolutions. However. I am not entirely sure I understand how this works. Would this same method also work to filter out by attribute gain (+int skills, +dex skills, +hp skills, etc?), using the master template?

Also, what about implementing a similar format for charms lists? {{Charms|rune=Fist}}, {{Charms|rune=Shadow}}...

EDIT: come to think of it, wouldn't this also work for items? Eg. {{Items|type=Alchemy}}, {{Items|type=Base Metal}}, allowing one master Items list?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 08:02:55 - 07/05/09
Would this same method also work to filter out by attribute gain (+int skills, +dex skills, +hp skills, etc?), using the master template?
It could, but the logic is not there.  It'd be simple enough to do using parameters to identify parameters.  For example:

Code: [Select]
{{myTemplate|filter_var=dex}}
then in myTemplate, use

Code: [Select]
{{{{{{filter_var}}}}}}
in the logic.  Since {{{filter_var}}} is evaluated to "dex" per normal wiki parameters, {{{{{{filter_var}}}}}} morphs to {{{dex}}} before being evaluated again.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 06:00:21 - 07/22/09
New template:  http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Template:Spoiler

Usage:
Code: [Select]
{{spoiler|this is some super-secret spoiler!}}

It's a simple black-on-black span but can mask inline spoilers.

I also found (and cleaned up) this template:  http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Template:Mob

Usage:
Code: [Select]
{{mob|name=[[White Rabbit]]|level=1|hp=5|spirit=20|num=1|charms=[[Neck Lunge]] x4, [[Nibble Your Bum]] x8, [[Look Cute]] x8}}
.. would produce wiki text akin to:
Code: [Select]
* [[White Rabbit]] (Level 1) 5 HP, 20 Spirit (x1)
** Charms:  [[Neck Lunge]] x4, ...
The num, spirit and charms parameters are all optional.  If num or charms are missing, their respective area doesn't display.  If spirit is missing, "Infinite Spirit" is rendered.

Also, I noticed a wiki editor -- can't remember who/where -- decided to bold a guaranteed-drop item/charm.  I think this is a marvelous idea.  For a single guaranteed drop from a collection I advocate we use "[[Charm A]] or [[Charm B]] or ..."  That is, just bold the whole string of potentially-guaranteed drops w/ an OR between each one.

Here's a sample event that employs the mob template, the spoiler template, and the bold for guaranteed drop style:  http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Thunderock_Canyon
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Element on 06:46:11 - 07/22/09
just a note...the "spoiler" isn't really working well. check that thunder rock page..the linked word "penetration" shows up in blue, which kinda gives it all away anyways.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Aplsos on 12:39:03 - 07/22/09
I don't think the story spoilers should be on the wiki pages anyway.  Most people are going to be using them for the charm/fight info, and it just makes the relevant information harder to find.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Manores on 13:23:09 - 07/24/09
I don't have much time but I have used the wiki a lot and I want to return the favor, even if it's a small contribution.

I haven't seen any pages where charms with bane extenders, shorteners, aura extenders, aura shorteners are listed and would like to work on listing those.

Do I just type in: http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Category:Bane_Extenders to the address bar and then edit the page, so it's created?

And regarding the titles, do you think these 4 suit or anyone have better suggestions?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 14:05:28 - 07/24/09
Do I just type in: http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Category:Bane_Extenders to the address bar and then edit the page, so it's created?

Yes.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 15:22:41 - 07/24/09
I don't have much time but I have used the wiki a lot and I want to return the favor, even if it's a small contribution.
Superb!  Welcome to the elite group of wiki editors.   8)

Once you've settled on a fitting category name, (if you weren't aware) this is the snippet you'd then inject on each relevant page:
Code: [Select]
[[Category:Your Category Name]]
.. and *presto!*  It's automagically categorized.

Also, don't forget to inject this on your category page:
Code: [Select]
[[Category:Charm]]
.. which will register your category as a sub-category of charms.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Manores on 16:39:34 - 07/24/09
Thanks!

I put a single charm to try what you have suggested, and I think it's OK.

Will play a bit more when I have more time :)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Pandemonium on 16:36:14 - 08/03/09
I don't think the story spoilers should be on the wiki pages anyway.  Most people are going to be using them for the charm/fight info, and it just makes the relevant information harder to find.

This.

Though Hrist was using the spoiler template for a fight strategy, Aplsos has a point. I propose removing the story stuff from the dungeon pages, or moving it to an "Adventurer's Diary" section. There's already a mechanic in-game for reading the adventures, and having early access to the story stuff doesn't help you make better gameplay decisions. It is purely story spoiler. It also clutters up fight information.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Jutetrea on 14:17:10 - 08/06/09
I was disappointed when I saw some dungeons didn't have the story there.  I've used it to re-check story info in the past, plus I felt it tied it into the game more.  I can understand the reluctance for it, but I was disappointed.


Anyway, I'm wondering if it would be possible and/or useful to have the level of craftable items be available through the "Craftable" section on items.  As an example:

Wind Catalyst
    * Alchemy
    * Base value 75 gold
    * A few drops of this can enhancethe potency of many potions

Origins

    * Found in Gaea's Dawn from Crystal Valley

Crafting

    * Gaea's Dawn Market - Battle Alchemist - Small Fury Potion - Lvl 18
    * Gaea's Dawn Market - Battle Alchemist - Lesser Stoneskin Potion - Lvl 18
    * Gaea's Dawn Market - Battle Alchemist - Bitter Heal Potion - Lvl 18

So when checking the wiki, and seeing something like gold ore where there is a ton of potential craftings you can get an idea how many you might want to carry around (or rubies/saphires, etc....stuff with limited purchasing locations primarily)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 02:49:48 - 08/07/09
It's silly that people are screaming "story spoilers" yet saying nothing about "fight spoilers", "boss spoilers", or "which attacks to expect so I can be 100% prepared" spoilers.

Anyway, I'm wondering if it would be possible and/or useful to have the level of craftable items be available through the "Craftable" section on items.  As an example:

...
Crafting
    * Gaea's Dawn Market - Battle Alchemist - Small Fury Potion - Lvl 18
It's fully possible (and a good idea, IMO).  It would, however, require a lot of work.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Jutetrea on 02:53:29 - 08/07/09
I need to figure out how wiki's work but wouldn't you be able to take the item template which pulls from where its available and just pull the line for level as well?  Or is the level on the item hardcoded?

By the way - anyone got a good pointer for "basic wiki editing/creation"?   Some pages (primarily pet foods) I wanted to add info to, and needed permission which I didn't have.   
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 09:10:54 - 08/07/09
It's silly that people are screaming "story spoilers" yet saying nothing about "fight spoilers", "boss spoilers", or "which attacks to expect so I can be 100% prepared" spoilers.

It's not about story spoilers, it's about wiki lisibility... The wiki is a tool for accessing info quickly. The info have to be concise and accurate. Story doesn't add any value to the wiki content, plus it make it more difficult to access the dungeon info in a blink...

That's why I'm quite against the story-relating thing...  :-*
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 19:15:29 - 08/08/09
I need to figure out how wiki's work but wouldn't you be able to take the item template which pulls from where its available and just pull the line for level as well?  Or is the level on the item hardcoded?
Each charm is currently coded per page.  (Ugh, right?)  I modified the CraftLoc template to accept a level parameter.  Now all one needs do is edit the resource page and add |level=X -- that is, pipe+level+equals+some# -- inside the {{{CraftLoc}}} template call.  Completed example:  http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Shining_Dust

What links to CraftLoc:  http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:CraftLoc&limit=500&from=0

By the way - anyone got a good pointer for "basic wiki editing/creation"?   Some pages (primarily pet foods) I wanted to add info to, and needed permission which I didn't have.   
There are numerous wiki tutorials online; find one for MediaWiki and you'll be golden.  Regarding permission, you just need to create an account.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Jutetrea on 20:34:17 - 08/08/09
I need to figure out how wiki's work but wouldn't you be able to take the item template which pulls from where its available and just pull the line for level as well?  Or is the level on the item hardcoded?
Each charm is currently coded per page.  (Ugh, right?)  I modified the CraftLoc template to accept a level parameter.  Now all one needs do is edit the resource page and add |level=X -- that is, pipe+level+equals+some# -- inside the {{{CraftLoc}}} template call.  Completed example:  http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Shining_Dust

What links to CraftLoc:  http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:CraftLoc&limit=500&from=0

By the way - anyone got a good pointer for "basic wiki editing/creation"?   Some pages (primarily pet foods) I wanted to add info to, and needed permission which I didn't have.   
There are numerous wiki tutorials online; find one for MediaWiki and you'll be golden.  Regarding permission, you just need to create an account.

Awesome!
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Pandemonium on 08:04:26 - 08/09/09

Each charm is currently coded per page.  (Ugh, right?) 

Is there a better way of storing and referring to charm information? It'd be better if there were a way to refer to item and charm information without having to manually add/change the info in every single reference. The Kingdom of Loathing wiki uses templates in a clever way to accomplish this (I think. I don't fully understand their system). Perhaps we could do something similar.

By the way - anyone got a good pointer for "basic wiki editing/creation"?   Some pages (primarily pet foods) I wanted to add info to, and needed permission which I didn't have.   
There's a pretty good guide to basic and advanced wiki editing here. http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Editing_Wikitext
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 04:58:48 - 08/13/09
One of my guilds recently adopted a new player.  While the wiki contains a lot of information, it might be initially overwhelming for new players to disseminate between need-to-know (introductory) and nice-to-know (tactics) details.  Ergo, I created a wiki "tutorial":  http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Tutorial

Please contribute to the page if you think there are other kernels of information new players should be made aware of.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Starwarskid on 10:09:34 - 08/15/09

Each charm is currently coded per page.  (Ugh, right?) 

Is there a better way of storing and referring to charm information? It'd be better if there were a way to refer to item and charm information without having to manually add/change the info in every single reference. The Kingdom of Loathing wiki uses templates in a clever way to accomplish this (I think. I don't fully understand their system). Perhaps we could do something similar.

I think the ideal way to do it is to make each charm a template, that is reused whenever the charm information is needed. However, this is a ton of rework for questionable benefit.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Chronosz on 03:36:20 - 08/17/09
I would just like to say a big THANK YOU to all the people who have been updating the wiki. It helps us all out a lot.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Tobliz on 05:42:55 - 08/17/09
That, we can agree on.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Moondance on 07:46:39 - 08/17/09
I also agree...  :laugh:

all those links and all those information about the drops(charm/items) on each dungeons,
the crafted charms and the items needed to craft them...

It was really a lot of work, and updating them continuously is already something...


Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Gabbin on 14:38:39 - 08/27/09
When did editing get locked down?  I used to go in and add info all the time, then took a little break.  I've tried to go back in a number of recent times and suddenly dont have permission...
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 14:58:39 - 08/27/09
When did editing get locked down?  I used to go in and add info all the time, then took a little break.  I've tried to go back in a number of recent times and suddenly dont have permission...
Anonymous edits were prevented to restrict the (annoying) bot-spam.  If you'd like to make contributions -- and we'd all appreciate you helping! -- you'll need to make a wiki account and log in before editing.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Keyar on 16:31:46 - 09/01/09
I have a suggestion about the wiki. I think we shouldn't put any other category on mob's charms other than 'mob charm'. That way they don't show up when you look at a category cuz I, at least, find that very annoying. I know you could just look at the runes for that specific charm but those lists aren't always updated and some are a bother to do, like the templates(just recently figured out how to edit those):
I just think it's enough that you can see which runes the mobs use, you don't really have to categorize them, I know that I have never searched for a mob charm anyway.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 09:23:01 - 09/02/09
I agree  ;)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Smashy on 05:20:52 - 09/09/09
Petition: Switch every instance of (Gathering type) Rank # to Casual/Apprentice/Seasoned/etc (Gathering type)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Moondance on 10:42:34 - 09/09/09
I can only think of two possible players updating the wiki... Lez and Nip?
who else knows all the details of the game.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 10:52:12 - 09/09/09
Remember it's an unofficial wiki...  ;)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Voiddancer on 01:48:03 - 09/10/09
ok so i guess i can help out , i usually have a lot of time at work and such so i guess ill make a wiki account at work tommorow , havent worked with a wiki before but i guess it takes about a day to learn at most , will post here again when i want people to send replays and such to me for updating <3
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 03:55:00 - 09/11/09
Aplsos and Smashy i know back in the day did a TON of data entry, someone (i forget who) did a ton of work getting shops and charms in.

I created the Item, Craftloc, and Found templates, and did a lot of the inital item entry.

Greezy owns the actual wiki, and since its inception, a TON of people have helped out putting more info in.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 16:34:12 - 10/05/09
I created the Item, Craftloc, and Found templates, and did a lot of the inital item entry.

Oh yeah?  Well I created the Quicklist, Charm Info, and Item (unrelated) Templates.  :P

This was mainly because I was tired of having to click on 30+ links to find what I wanted.

Current Project: Frost info & the Charm Info Tables.
Next Project: Finish (and minor updates to the) Item Tables.
After that: Figure out a way to update the Quick Lists without a repeat of the horrible mess that was the last attempt.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Starwarskid on 02:03:40 - 10/06/09
I created the Item, Craftloc, and Found templates, and did a lot of the inital item entry.

Oh yeah?  Well I created the Quicklist, Charm Info, and Item (unrelated) Templates.  :P

This was mainly because I was tired of having to click on 30+ links to find what I wanted.

Current Project: Frost info & the Charm Info Tables.
Next Project: Finish (and minor updates to the) Item Tables.
After that: Figure out a way to update the Quick Lists without a repeat of the horrible mess that was the last attempt.

The new list format is good. Not so sure about the new charm format, the old one is more normal wiki style.

EDIT 1: That being said, I'm not sure it is necessary to separate out class charms into a separate table the way you did. I think it looks fine integrated into the main table, for example take a look at Multihit chart (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Template:Multihit_chart) which uses your template.

EDIT 2: Can you add some left margin/padding for the charm name?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 07:03:28 - 10/06/09
Nothing about what any of the charms DO is in the chart, rendering it kinda useless to me at least.

Also someone (hexa-edit Moonshine) commented up the page about the devs being the ones who were able to contribute most, but they have never eally had a hand in it (hence my shoutout list )

doubleEdit : referring to multihit charm.

tripleEdit: i kinda dont care, as i never use the wiki for charm lookup anymore anyway, but when making neat wiki constructs, make sure to consider weather it serves the purpose of the wiki, or a purpose of doing something neat. Wiki's purpose is to present useful information in an easy readable format.

Quad: edit- which item template did you work on? i didnt see anything else posted around besides Item2. and thats not used anywhere i dont think

Penta edit : while we're epeening, Items was copied shamelessly from jobs (by page-admission?) which i also did some template work on originally so Nyah :p

LOTS of people have made a ton of changes and improvements over the year, to credit the work to any one person or even one group of people is a disservice to everyone that posts and helps out here.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 09:23:46 - 10/06/09
About the new charm template, it was already discussed, and if I remember well, most of the people were thinking the old text-only template was better suited for a wiki.

Again, a wiki is a tool that helps to list useful info in a very basic way (text). Getting some pictures for pages with a bunch of info (like the cities' ones) is fine, but formating the charm pages with some heavy black template just to be similar to Estiah's L&F is a mistake IMO.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Schutzengel on 15:01:42 - 10/06/09
About the new charm template, it was already discussed, and if I remember well, most of the people were thinking the old text-only template was better suited for a wiki.

Again, a wiki is a tool that helps to list useful info in a very basic way (text). Getting some pictures for pages with a bunch of info (like the cities' ones) is fine, but formating the charm pages with some heavy black template just to be similar to Estiah's L&F is a mistake IMO.
I agree with you.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 15:04:15 - 10/06/09
EDIT 1: That being said, I'm not sure it is necessary to separate out class charms into a separate table the way you did. I think it looks fine integrated into the main table, for example take a look at Multihit chart (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Template:Multihit_chart) which uses your template.
Class charms in the chart (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Template:Axeinfo&oldid=25874) was an earlier design that I wasn't so sure of.
Quote
EDIT 2: Can you add some left margin/padding for the charm name?
I have no idea what you're talking about so: Maybe.

As for the new template, which I'm assuming is the one seen here (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Shocking_Hand_axe), I have to agree that the old version was better.  Maxumi seems have updated it and ran with it.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Seasonaltnt on 15:05:07 - 10/06/09
About the new charm template, it was already discussed, and if I remember well, most of the people were thinking the old text-only template was better suited for a wiki.

Again, a wiki is a tool that helps to list useful info in a very basic way (text). Getting some pictures for pages with a bunch of info (like the cities' ones) is fine, but formating the charm pages with some heavy black template just to be similar to Estiah's L&F is a mistake IMO.

I'm sorry you don't like my creativity.  I've already stopped updating it.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Starwarskid on 16:08:50 - 10/06/09
EDIT 2: Can you add some left margin/padding for the charm name?
I have no idea what you're talking about so: Maybe.

I'm guessing it shows up differently on your browser. I'm using firefox, and it looks like this:

(http://www.disasterzone.net/~h4ngedm4n/estiah/images/forvelkrin.png)

Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 01:25:00 - 10/07/09
I find the Quick Lists 100x more useful than the Charm Lists...

More w/ quick lists :)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Schutzengel on 05:33:38 - 10/07/09
I find the Quick Lists 100x more useful than the Charm Lists...

More w/ quick lists :)
+1

I don't think that Charm Lists are useful.
When I want a charm I will like to know what it does, then how I can get it, clicking on it..
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Starwarskid on 17:45:34 - 10/07/09
Nast & Schutz: I can't believe you guys like the old quick lists more than the new charm lists. The quicklists were a pain in the ass to update and thus quickly fell out of date. Velkrin's new charm list is more colorful, easier to read, and easier to update with new charms. The choice to display requirements on the chart instead of effects makes sense, because effects are often difficult to cram into a table form in an organized manner. This kind of list allows a person to look at all charms of a certain group and get a good feel for what stat requirements are needed. If you want to have what the charm does (eg magic damage, melee damage, aura effects) in list format, why not update the old quick list, or make another template? I for one support Velkrin's new list other than the minor aesthetic I posted above.

EDIT: To illustrate my point, take a look at the Buff charms quick list (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Template:Buffcharmchart). Its ugly, and it is missing charms because the format quite frankly sucks. The Buff charm list (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Buff) is up to date and easy to read.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Schutzengel on 21:34:26 - 10/07/09
Nast & Schutz: I can't believe you guys like the old quick lists more than the new charm lists. The quicklists were a pain in the ass to update and thus quickly fell out of date. Velkrin's new charm list is more colorful, easier to read, and easier to update with new charms.
[...]

More colorful = Harder to read. And less "wiki".

When I am searching for charms to my characters, I take a look in the quick list, sorted by level.
So I am want lvl 30 Axe charms, I look the Axe list, charms around lvl 30, then I see the effect, if I like it, I click and see where should I go to get them.

Easier.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 06:24:40 - 10/08/09
Its not the colors that get me, its the fact that the information presented is less useful for my purposes.

QuickLists (to me) are easier to read, and provide an at a glace of what charms are there.

Especially with respect to the buff list = What good is a buff list that you dont know what any of the buffs do?

The other reason i like charm effects over requirements, is that the requirements to charms are 100% formulaic for most of the charm types, and therefore have 100% predictable stat requirements.

I'll come up with a mockup based on a quick list thats a bit easier to work with though since you asked.

Again, Quick Lists = win :) (and i think Velkrin made those too)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 06:35:49 - 10/08/09
http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Quick_List

The posted example now uses a templated quick list :)

Easy to update and everything.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Starwarskid on 09:01:10 - 10/08/09
Its not the colors that get me, its the fact that the information presented is less useful for my purposes.

QuickLists (to me) are easier to read, and provide an at a glace of what charms are there.

Especially with respect to the buff list = What good is a buff list that you dont know what any of the buffs do?

The other reason i like charm effects over requirements, is that the requirements to charms are 100% formulaic for most of the charm types, and therefore have 100% predictable stat requirements.

I'll come up with a mockup based on a quick list thats a bit easier to work with though since you asked.

Again, Quick Lists = win :) (and i think Velkrin made those too)

Maybe there could be separate lists, requirements lists and effects list. I prefer the requirements content in addition to the style as previously mentioned, but I see how the effects info can be more useful to other people. I guess the real problem is that what information should go on a list, and what should be clicked on to get detailed information varies from person to person.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 16:14:34 - 10/08/09
Maybe there could be separate lists, requirements lists and effects list.

So, what you're suggesting is that everything be the way it is.  Which is actually how I went about it.  Info lists for the general stuff (level, Att reqs, where it's found, etc) and the Quick Lists for the effects.  The problem with updating the quick lists (the design, not the lists themselves) is that the upper level charms quickly spiral out of control.  It goes like this:

Level 20 Axe charm: 10 melee.  Other effects: 10 shifting.

Level 43 Axe charm: 40 melee.  Other effects: [If it's Tuesday] Steal target's pants.  [If it's Wednesday] Steal target's cat.  [Target ally with least fashion sense]  Give pants.

As I mentioned, I attempted to adapt the big colorful template design into a new Quick Lists Mk 2 design, but things went out of control.  When a charms other effects start pushing into 3 rows worth of text I gave up.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 04:49:20 - 10/09/09
Yea it does get wonky w/ huge charm lines...

Theres gotta be a good solution though. Just not sure what it is.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Haborym on 07:56:17 - 10/09/09
By the way, I've seen some charms with the "new" style (which tries to imitate the design of the game), and I definitely don't like it. >:(
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Starwarskid on 17:32:23 - 10/09/09
Maybe there could be separate lists, requirements lists and effects list.

So, what you're suggesting is that everything be the way it is.  Which is actually how I went about it.  Info lists for the general stuff (level, Att reqs, where it's found, etc) and the Quick Lists for the effects.  The problem with updating the quick lists (the design, not the lists themselves) is that the upper level charms quickly spiral out of control.  It goes like this:

Level 20 Axe charm: 10 melee.  Other effects: 10 shifting.

Level 43 Axe charm: 40 melee.  Other effects: [If it's Tuesday] Steal target's pants.  [If it's Wednesday] Steal target's cat.  [Target ally with least fashion sense]  Give pants.

As I mentioned, I attempted to adapt the big colorful template design into a new Quick Lists Mk 2 design, but things went out of control.  When a charms other effects start pushing into 3 rows worth of text I gave up.

Hah I dont have a good solution to this either. I made willpower chart as an alternative quick list (effects info), but no solution on the big "other effects" column. I was trying to show this problem with the auras chart, because auras in particular seem to have lots of conditional stuff. The easiest way would be to just put a "yes" or "no" in "other effects" and require the player to click towards the charm page for such information, but I did not do this because it would be less information than the current setup.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 19:06:20 - 10/09/09
What if we remove other effects, and replace damage w/ Charm Effects.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Schutzengel on 20:28:30 - 10/09/09
What if we remove other effects, and replace damage w/ Charm Effects.
Nah!
Damage is important.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 20:15:04 - 10/10/09
I mean the header.

So Charm Effects would include dmg + anything else
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Tayla on 15:16:43 - 10/15/09
is there a current standard for the pet dietary chart? i notice a few animals that have no pet dietary chart, and was considering including the template (if i could find one) - but after reading until i think my eyes will fall out, i realize that i just don't grasp the template idea. i could learn the markup in a few days, probably, but i didn't really want to put that much time into it.

so, is there a template for the dietary chart or do i just use the item template? how do you include it to the page? if there's not a template of items that pets can eat, can someone show me the general mark up (i'll gladly work on inputting content)?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Pandemonium on 00:26:55 - 10/17/09
Templates are a special wiki thing for formatting similar things a certain way. While the pet dietary charts might gain some benefit from the use of a template, they don't currently use one. Templates are great for things like the city information, which appears in a couple of places, but isn't really any different in the places it appears. Thus, there are {{Aleas}} and {{Inachis}} and so on. Other templates are used to format similar data a certain way. For example, some of the monsters use the {{mob}} template with some information so that they're consistently formatted (such as {{mob|name=Knight Bob|level=9|hp=90|spirit=22|charms=[[Hardened Leather Chest]] x4, ... }} )

There's no special template for the dietary charts. If you take a look at the source for some of the existing ones, you'll see that they're just large tables. The markup for tables is pretty simple. The ones I glanced at all look like this:
Code: [Select]
{| border="1" padding="2" width=500px style="text-align:center" class="sortable"
| '''Item'''  || ''Agility'' || ''Cruelty'' || ''Fitness'' || ''Ruse'' || ''Rune''
|-
| [[Ale]] ||  || +1 ||  ||  ||
|-
| [[Apple]] ||  ||  ||  || +2 ||
|-
...
|-
| [[Yam]] ||  || -2 ||  ||  ||
|}
Add similar looking lines for more foods and they'll show up in the table. Be bold, play with things, and check your changes with preview. The more content/editors, the merrier.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Larcent on 00:45:09 - 12/19/09
I added a little "(special)" tag an explanation in the main wiki entry regarding discovery events that require special triggers to find, like the tablet hunt. I'm not revealing what the triggers are, but there's no real explanation on there that some discoveries can't be found no matter how much you gather unless you've met the requirements. I figure that would be confusing to players who haven't been following the contests and such.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Chronosz on 01:32:03 - 12/24/09
When I put "Circle of Life" in the search it comes up with some crazy error.. O_o..?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Slalderma on 01:50:36 - 12/24/09
When I put "Circle of Life" in the search it comes up with some crazy error.. O_o..?

yeah that is odd.  http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Circle_of_Life
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Seasonaltnt on 03:38:56 - 12/24/09
That seems to be the problem when you search anything.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Chronosz on 05:00:10 - 12/24/09
Yeah... Figured that out a bit after. Whats wrong?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Foomanbar on 06:13:22 - 12/24/09
Tried a search, and got the following error message. The db may need to be "recovered":

Code: [Select]
A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:

    (SQL query hidden)

from within function "". MySQL returned error "145: Table './aswtnet_wikka/mwik_searchindex' is marked as crashed and should be repaired (localhost)".
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Slalderma on 13:58:02 - 12/24/09
I sent a forums PM to Greeezzzyyy, we'll see if he gets it.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Chronosz on 21:56:25 - 12/27/09
Stuff like this happens all the time. Would it be easier to have someone who is actually active run one? Or let someone else take that one over?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Equation on 03:49:02 - 12/28/09
It's been like this for a while. Hope the administrator fix it ASAP. Thanks!
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Keyar on 17:55:49 - 12/28/09
Well, the problem is only really when you search for incomplete names and would normally get suggestions. If you search complete names there shouldn't be a problem, though note that some pages for some reason require EXACT spelling, as in capitals on the words, like 'last echo of the thunder' doesn't work, but 'Last Echo of the Thunder' does.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Equation on 22:32:01 - 12/31/09
Yes, I notice that. But it used to be able to search incomplete in fulltext. It's really inconvenient now. e.g. I now can't search all ongoing charms like before :(. It looks a  minor setting issue on the wiki server. I hope the admin see this post and fix it for all the players' sake. Thanks.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Chronosz on 23:30:55 - 12/31/09
Someone should make a new one. If funding is the issue, then say so. I am sure someone can come up with something.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Starwarskid on 01:56:19 - 01/07/10
The new wiki is at

http://www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Main_Page (http://www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Main_Page)

I just found out myself not too long ago.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nastharl on 04:11:49 - 01/07/10
how up to date is it though
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 05:46:25 - 01/07/10
how up to date is it though

The database dump is from the 2nd Jan, so it's basically a mirror from the then + new edits since the 6th Jan.

~ skrit
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Slalderma on 13:07:09 - 01/07/10
how up to date is it though

The database dump is from the 2nd Jan, so it's basically a mirror from the then + new edits since the 6th Jan.

~ skrit

Hey skirt can you introduce yourself?  It was kinda  :o :o :o when a (practically) unknown showed up on the wiki and said "hey dudes I'm takin' over!"
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Glissa on 13:08:58 - 01/07/10
I have a suggestion about the wiki. I think we shouldn't put any other category on mob's charms other than 'mob charm'. That way they don't show up when you look at a category cuz I, at least, find that very annoying. I know you could just look at the runes for that specific charm but those lists aren't always updated and some are a bother to do, like the templates(just recently figured out how to edit those):
I just think it's enough that you can see which runes the mobs use, you don't really have to categorize them, I know that I have never searched for a mob charm anyway.
I totally agree with your viewpoint. The other categories on Mob charm should be deleted.
And I suggest to draft a standardization of charm's categories...
Title: Standardization of Wiki Charm Categories
Post by: Glissa on 13:21:04 - 01/07/10
This is a draft I made...
-----
Top categories:

1.Axe, Sword, Mace, Twinblades, Spear, Fist, Earth, Shadow, Holy, Lightning, Frost, Fire, Spirit, Armor, Ward, Willpower, Summon, Buff, Debuff, Tech
*Classify by rune and effect of charm. (Categories:Willpower should contain charms of willpower rune and charms raise your willpower without willpower rune. So does Categories:Summon, etc. It will help players find all potential useful charm)
*Standard name: Twinblades(no Twin Blades), Fist(no Fist Weapons). (The rune name is different with charm's requirement )

2.Protect, Focus, Heal, Bane, Aura

3.Armor/Ward Projection, Extra Action, Target all allies, Target all enemies
*Armor Projection = "Deal melee/magic equal to armor (up to XX) "
*Extra Action: All charms possibly bring extra action(s).

4.Cleanse, Normalize, Purge, Shifting, Vanish, Break Focus

5.Drain, Multi-Hit, Immunity, Self Stun, Steal Modifiers, Consume Willpower

--
Sub categories:

i.Target
*Categories:Target contains charms with special target.

ii.Extend/Reduce Auras/Banes/Summons/Life, Equalization(Equalize Armor)
*Those categories need a series unified name. And I prefer Equalization to Equalize Armor.

iii.Damage Over Time, Curse, Sacrifice, Epic
*Those categories is not as useful as above-mentioned。Just for people who have spare time...

iv.Melee,Magic
*They are really useless and Deletable. Does Categories:Melee contain all charms with melee or all charms only deal directly melee damage?  Nobody knows...
-----
This article is a stub. You can help by discussing... ;)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 16:33:15 - 01/07/10
how up to date is it though

The database dump is from the 2nd Jan, so it's basically a mirror from the then + new edits since the 6th Jan.

~ skrit

Hey skirt can you introduce yourself?  It was kinda  :o :o :o when a (practically) unknown showed up on the wiki and said "hey dudes I'm takin' over!"

Ah, yes, sure. Guess I wasn't very talkative in the forum before.  :D

So I'm Skriticos, player of the game since a few moths (lke 4-5) and guild master of Primorgenitor. I kind of grew found of the game.. and the wiki, as it is a very useful tool.

Now that the original wiki shows some technical problems (the search index is gone producing all sorts of error messages) I realized that the original admin is not playing any more and the wiki is neglected (nobody fixes it), and might/will eventually just disappear.

Didn't like the idea, so I thought to myself, "Well, let's just ask for a database dump and take over the maintenance, so everyone stays happy." And that's what I did, and now there is the all new, but still good old wiki - with an active admin and in good working condition.

As for what I do when I'm not in game? Well, I'm an Application developer, part time sysadmin and Linux/OSS geek. Simply put, I'm qualified to run a wiki.

Well, what else would you like to know?

~skrit
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Wolfsoul on 16:56:50 - 01/07/10
What is your credit card safety number?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Slalderma on 17:26:59 - 01/07/10
how up to date is it though

The database dump is from the 2nd Jan, so it's basically a mirror from the then + new edits since the 6th Jan.

~ skrit

Hey skirt can you introduce yourself?  It was kinda  :o :o :o when a (practically) unknown showed up on the wiki and said "hey dudes I'm takin' over!"

Ah, yes, sure. Guess I wasn't very talkative in the forum before.  :D

So I'm Skriticos, player of the game since a few moths (lke 4-5) and guild master of Primorgenitor. I kind of grew found of the game.. and the wiki, as it is a very useful tool.

Now that the original wiki shows some technical problems (the search index is gone producing all sorts of error messages) I realized that the original admin is not playing any more and the wiki is neglected (nobody fixes it), and might/will eventually just disappear.

Didn't like the idea, so I thought to myself, "Well, let's just ask for a database dump and take over the maintenance, so everyone stays happy." And that's what I did, and now there is the all new, but still good old wiki - with an active admin and in good working condition.

As for what I do when I'm not in game? Well, I'm an Application developer, part time sysadmin and Linux/OSS geek. Simply put, I'm qualified to run a wiki.

Well, what else would you like to know?

~skrit

That's enough, thanks.  It was just odd that people had offered to run the wiki before but Greeez never relented.  And now he did.  By all means welcome and glad to have you.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Gothmogged on 08:45:26 - 01/14/10
Just noticed that the new wiki allowed me to edit a page without logging in.  Didn't that get disabled in the previous one due to bot graffiti?

Seems like we should probably do that now before we have to start fighting bots again.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 14:46:51 - 01/14/10
Just noticed that the new wiki allowed me to edit a page without logging in.  Didn't that get disabled in the previous one due to bot graffiti?

Seems like we should probably do that now before we have to start fighting bots again.

Well, it was never dissableled in the wiki, the settings are the same. What was done was protecting the main page and the discussion of the main page and a few other pages, so only logged in users could edit it. Seems like bots are targeting those pages primarily.

I let it stand as it is right now, and if some bots come by and start harrasing the site pages again, I'll lock down the wiki.

~ skrit
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Starwarskid on 20:22:03 - 02/01/10
people are still editing the old wiki. would be nice if it were taken down and replaced with a redirect, but i guess it is out of our control.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 17:07:24 - 02/02/10
people are still editing the old wiki. would be nice if it were taken down and replaced with a redirect, but i guess it is out of our control.

The owner doesn't respond, so that probably won't happen. The domain registry will end on the 3rd of March, so the old wiki will likely just disappear (with all the edits that are added now). Only guessing though from the info I have, which is not very much for the old wiki.

Edit: the edits on the old wiki were mostly done by two people (Zepia and Walbur). I sent them an in game message.

Edit2: just checked, the old wiki is off-line now. Sooner than expected, actually. Anyway, that should solve the duplication problems.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 07:14:09 - 02/15/10
Alright, quick question for the editors.  Is it possible to make it so a cell in a table on the wiki appears as a different background color than the other cells when the columns are all set to be a specific color?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Freyajack on 22:08:55 - 02/16/10
Attribute ordering is annoyingly inconsistent.

In the skills tab of the game, attributes are in dex pow int con order.
In the jobs page of the wiki, attributes are also in dex pow int con order.  (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Jobs)
However, for individual skill pages, attributes are in pow dex int con order.  (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Extreme_Herbalist)

Is there a way to easily change these tables?  Or does it have to be done by hand on each individual page?  Is there any reason the attribute ordering isn't consistent?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 09:30:25 - 02/17/10
We might want to agree which order to use first.  From the looks of it the att pages have to be in the spot they're under.  Can't have the titles swapped in the att lists.  Jobs list and Info lists (see some charm pages) both use an automatic sorting method, so it should be as simple as switching the rows of code around a little.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Freyajack on 11:03:33 - 02/17/10
I would strongly prefer to match the game's attribute order, otherwise it is really confusing (or maybe that's just me).

Does anyone know where the rankTable in something like the below wiki code is defined?

{{rankTable
|show_pow=true
|show_dex=true
|show_int=true
|show_con=true
|show_special=true
|  |1|1|1|1| | |{{required|Paladin}}|=rank 1
|20|1|2|2|1| | |{{required|Slayer}}|=rank 2
|40|2|2|2|2| | | |=rank 3
}}

If we can change how rankTable is defined, it might all happen automatically, or else we might have to go through and swap the pow and dex columns of numbers by hand.  (I'm happy to help do this over time.)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 11:44:51 - 02/17/10
Well there is this:

http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Template:RankTable/Row&action=edit

Note I linked it to the edit page because the code doesn't appear otherwise.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Freyajack on 12:08:19 - 02/17/10
Thanks Velkrin!

I edited the template, so now the display order matches the game and the other wiki pages (dex pow int con).  Only confusing thing is that the template input still has to be in the (pow dex int con) order - otherwise we would have had to go through and change each page by hand.  I put a big note on the template page stating this, hopefully it is not a problem.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 17:28:51 - 02/17/10
I went through and updated the charm info pages (and the main template) to standardize them.  Except for the class ones now that I think about it.  Though if I could figure out how to override the background for a single cell it wouldn't matter.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Freyajack on 15:49:35 - 02/18/10
How you delete a page?  Is that something only an admin can do?  If so, someone please delete http://www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Apprentice_Herbalist_Gathering
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 18:01:36 - 02/18/10
Put {{delete}} at the top of the page and the admin(s) will get around to it.  In this case I just did it for you.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 16:54:13 - 02/19/10
Quote from: Freyajack
How you delete a page?  Is that something only an admin can do?  If so, someone please delete http://www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Apprentice_Herbalist_Gathering

Put {{delete}} at the top of the page and the admin(s) will get around to it.  In this case I just did it for you.

Only admins and moderators can do that. Article deleted.

By the way, anyone feels like moderating? Could use some help with the housekeeping.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Freyajack on 17:54:49 - 02/19/10
By the way, anyone feels like moderating? Could use some help with the housekeeping.

What is involved?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 11:04:04 - 02/20/10
By the way, anyone feels like moderating? Could use some help with the housekeeping.

What is involved?

Nothing much actually. I'm just looking for a reserve moderators in case I'm not on for a while. Maybe check the categories once in a while or delete pages requested for deletion, ban spammers. Stuff like that.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Freyajack on 12:24:49 - 02/20/10
Meh sure, sign me up.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 18:11:51 - 02/20/10
Meh sure, sign me up.

Done.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Freyajack on 17:33:15 - 02/22/10
So I'm looking into creating a new-style charm list for Shadow charms.  Specifically, I'm thinking of creating one that looks like http://www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Template:Swordinfo

Before I do this, are people happy with this format?  Do we want to try to add in something like a damage column or an effect summary column?  It seems crazy to have and maintain the two separate requirements vs. effects lists that we have now.  We could gain some space by dropping the "Rune 1" column since that is always the same.

Also, I don't know much about wikis, but is there a way to automatically generate these by somehow providing a list of individual charm pages?  If the individual charm pages have consistent formatting and are machine readable, the information is all there already.

And a final question - do we want dual charms to show up in both tables?  My instinct would be to mimic what the game does.  So although Darkwood Sword is Sword/Shadow, since it shows up in your Sword charms list I would put it only in the Sword table and not in the Shadow table.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 17:52:11 - 02/22/10
So I'm looking into creating a new-style charm list for Shadow charms.  Specifically, I'm thinking of creating one that looks like http://www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Template:Swordinfo

Before I do this, are people happy with this format?  Do we want to try to add in something like a damage column or an effect summary column?  It seems crazy to have and maintain the two separate requirements vs. effects lists that we have now.  We could gain some space by dropping the "Rune 1" column since that is always the same.

There was some discussion on that some months back.  .  The jist of it was no one could come up with a better solution to the effects quickly going out of control.

 (http://forum.estiah.com/index.php?topic=1727.msg44067#msg44067[/url)
Quote
Also, I don't know much about wikis, but is there a way to automatically generate these by somehow providing a list of individual charm pages?  If the individual charm pages have consistent formatting and are machine readable, the information is all there already.
Category (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Category:Fist).  Only works if the correct category info is on the page though.

Quote
And a final question - do we want dual charms to show up in both tables?  My instinct would be to mimic what the game does.  So although Darkwood Sword is Sword/Shadow, since it shows up in your Sword charms list I would put it only in the Sword table and not in the Shadow table.

Technically it only shows up like that on the charms/archived charms page.  In the gear maker it shows up on both lists.  Bear in mind the gear maker was also updated much more recently than the charm/archived charm pages.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Bazabaza on 17:56:10 - 02/22/10
Quote
And a final question - do we want dual charms to show up in both tables?  My instinct would be to mimic what the game does.  So although Darkwood Sword is Sword/Shadow, since it shows up in your Sword charms list I would put it only in the Sword table and not in the Shadow table.

Technically it only shows up like that on the charms/archived charms page.  In the gear maker it shows up on both lists.  Bear in mind the gear maker was also updated much more recently than the charm/archived charm pages.

this.

I'd say make it show on both tables.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 11:30:49 - 02/28/10
By the way, anyone feels like moderating? Could use some help with the housekeeping.

I would also like to offer my services as a wiki mod, due in no small part to the fact I'm tired of this bot from Latvia.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 17:05:23 - 02/28/10
By the way, anyone feels like moderating? Could use some help with the housekeeping.

I would also like to offer my services as a wiki mod, due in no small part to the fact I'm tired of this bot from Latvia.

And you shall be. :)
(added you to the syop group)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 17:49:54 - 03/03/10
So just to double check, we agreed the charm template that made the info page look like the one ingame (Example) (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Rat_Cloak) was unnecessary and didn't add anything helpful to the current text based format right?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Freyajack on 19:13:44 - 03/03/10
So just to double check, we agreed the charm template that made the info page look like the one ingame (Example) (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Rat_Cloak) was unnecessary and didn't add anything helpful to the current text based format right?

Yes.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Toshimo on 19:46:23 - 03/03/10
So just to double check, we agreed the charm template that made the info page look like the one ingame (Example) (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Rat_Cloak) was unnecessary and didn't add anything helpful to the current text based format right?

Obviously, I disagree on this subject (and now, having read over this thread, there were very few people who seemed concerned either way with it).  In my opinion, it's definitely easier to read over the charms at a glance.  Frankly, I find the other method (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Baralas%27_Legacy) significantly harder to parse quickly.  It's just a poorly formatted wall of text to me.

However, I can revert the few I have changed if there is a consensus.  But I certainly think that if there are going to be guidelines for editing, then they need to be clearly posted somewhere on the wiki and not buried in 20+ pages of forum posts here.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 20:07:03 - 03/03/10
However, I can revert the few I have changed if there is a consensus.  But I certainly think that if there are going to be guidelines for editing, then they need to be clearly posted somewhere on the wiki and not buried in 20+ pages of forum posts here.
Let me just save other people some time then. Here's where it starts for those who don't want to go hunting for it (http://forum.estiah.com/index.php?topic=1727.msg31664#msg31664).  It continues again a few pages back (from this post) after some discussion about Hrist's crazy templates.

Oh and Starwarskid if you're still around I couldn't get that spacing thing that bugged you figured out.  Probably should have mentioned that earlier.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Toshimo on 20:13:45 - 03/03/10
Let me just save other people some time then. Here's where it starts for those who don't want to go hunting for it (http://forum.estiah.com/index.php?topic=1727.msg31664#msg31664).  It continues again a few pages back (from this post) after some discussion about Hrist's crazy templates.

Right.  There were apparently 2-3 people who liked it and 4-5 that didn't.  Even after that, a dozen or so charms remained in the wiki with the Charm2 templating (which is where I saw it).

So... since a couple of months down the road, this section of the discussion will be buried too, and since there's probably a few other formatting guidelines that have been agreed on, can we pick a nice visible place on the wiki (like maybe a link from the Main Page:Talk or something) where all the decisions that have been made regarding edits/formatting are collated?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Zods on 07:06:59 - 03/04/10
BTW - Someone went about changing the Gathering levels in the Wiki and now it's very inconsistent.
I'm seeing pages where the Apprentice gathering level is listed as 1 and as 2 on another.

This is the way it should be? =>  Rank 0 = Casual, Rank 1 = Apprentice and so on right?

Someone seems to keep changing the Gathering Wiki pages to Casual = 1, Apprentice 2, etc.?

Which way are we supposed to be listing this information?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Freyajack on 15:39:12 - 03/04/10
BTW - Someone went about changing the Gathering levels in the Wiki and now it's very inconsistent.
I'm seeing pages where the Apprentice gathering level is listed as 1 and as 2 on another.

This is the way it should be? =>  Rank 0 = Casual, Rank 1 = Apprentice and so on right?

Someone seems to keep changing the Gathering Wiki pages to Casual = 1, Apprentice 2, etc.?

Which way are we supposed to be listing this information?

Darned if I know.  But we should pick something and stick it in the same place (hopefully obviously linked to from the main page) as we stick the answer to Toshimo's "which charm template do we use" question.

Also, I noticed in at least one place someone removed the spoiler-tagged strategy from a dungeon page.  Do we have a policy on whether we want those in or not?  I think 1-2 sentences of advice are fine and useful to people learning the game, but I could go either way.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Toshimo on 17:16:55 - 03/04/10
Quote from: Toshimo
Also, why would you completely undo the mob templating?--Toshimo 14:28, 4 March 2010 (UTC) link (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Talk:HolyGrace_Square)

Quote from: Shalq
The mob templating is useless. Mob lvl/hp/spirit/charms info looks much better if written manualy, and I didn't want to edit that template or make one myself. Most of the dungeons (and some of the events, gonna clean up all of them someday) are written in the way that You can see here - clean, easy to read and modify if necessary.link (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Talk:HolyGrace_Square)

See, we need to get some sort of formatting and editing rules laid out.  The attitude of "I'm going to delete your work with no explanation and replace it with my own because I like mine better." is not cool.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 17:37:11 - 03/04/10
Quote
Obviously, I disagree on this subject (and now, having read over this thread, there were very few people who seemed concerned either way with it). In my opinion, it's definitely easier to read over the charms at a glance.  Frankly, I find the other method significantly harder to parse quickly.  It's just a poorly formatted wall of text to me.

See, we need to get some sort of formatting and editing rules laid out.  The attitude of "I'm going to delete your work with no explanation and replace it with my own because I like mine better." is not cool.

(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/3114/doublefacepalmkf.jpg)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Toshimo on 17:41:14 - 03/04/10
Snarky Image Macro

If you can't tell the difference between documented changes that (a)match already existing pages (b) add content instead of deleting and (c) I have offered to revert and destroying content with no explanation, I can't help you.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 18:00:36 - 03/04/10
A: At the time it matched like 5 pages.
B: It didn't add content, just changed how it was displayed.
C: I'll break this down.
  C1: You start editing a number of pages without explanation, converting them to a different template.
  C2: You state your reasoning as the fact you like the design of the template better.
  C3: You declare that editing someone else's work and replacing it with something you like better is unacceptable.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Toshimo on 18:10:09 - 03/04/10
A: At the time it matched like 5 pages.
B: It didn't add content, just changed how it was displayed.
C: I'll break this down.
  C1: You start editing a number of pages without explanation, converting them to a different template.
  C2: You state your reasoning as the fact you like the design of the template better.
  C3: You declare that editing someone else's work and replacing it with something you like better is unacceptable.

Ok, there's two issues here:
(1) Making large edits without explanation.  My work was documented.  And from the fact that people immediately started conversing about it with me instead of going "Why are you doing this?", it's pretty obvious that documentation worked.  The edits I'm having issues with were not documented or explained at all.  You can't even begin to defend that.
(2) Templating.  Whether you like the look of the template I chose or not is a matter of opinion.  What really isn't up for debate is that when you have hundreds or thousands of the same type of entry, that templating makes a whole lot of sense.  I'm willing to have a discussion on how we can make a template that satisfies the most people, but just casually nuking templates is not helpful.

So, in a nutshell, major edits without comments or documentation are bad.   Fact.  Also, we should be moving towards more templating, rather than away from it.  Opinion.  If you have a problem with a template, discuss how to change the template, don't undo other people's work.  Fact.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 19:11:16 - 03/04/10
So we'll table the back and forth then.  On with the quoting then.

This is the way it should be? =>  Rank 0 = Casual, Rank 1 = Apprentice and so on right?

Someone seems to keep changing the Gathering Wiki pages to Casual = 1, Apprentice 2, etc.?

Which way are we supposed to be listing this information?

Personally I count Casual as rank 1.  Then again I count Adventurer as Tier 1.

Quote from: Freyajack
Also, I noticed in at least one place someone removed the spoiler-tagged strategy from a dungeon page.  Do we have a policy on whether we want those in or not? 

There is no policy, which is true for about 99% of the wiki.  We could just move those things to the talk pages of the dungeon.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Zods on 22:31:23 - 03/04/10
Personally I count Casual as rank 1.  Then again I count Adventurer as Tier 1.

See where do you get this from? I'm just curious, because that likely means that there is another table somewhere else in the wiki.

The main gathering page lists Casual = 0 thru Master = 4, so I assumed that was the rule we should follow.  But it's clearly not known to many (either that or the table on the main Gathering page is wrong)

http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Gathering

PS..I'm only bringing this up because a player in my clan came to the wiki read that an item was available only from Logger 2, and proceded to waste tons of AP only to realize it was actually Apprentice and that someone labeled it differently than the Gathering title page.  over five hundred AP used incorrectly.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 23:24:04 - 03/04/10
Why don't we just use the same numbering for the wiki as the game does (Casual = 1, Apprentice = 2, etc. - required skill implies this)? Right now I usually just skip the item descriptions and go to the gathering overview, as the items are assigned by gathering names there. The numbering of the items as it is now is quite useless in the current mixed form.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Zods on 04:02:03 - 03/05/10
the problem exists in the Bluiding pages where it lists the materials needed.  if you click on the materials needed to see how to best get ahold of them, then it tells you Gather 1,2 meaning and what does that mean?  then you have to go the the main  gather page, then the correct gather page to see if it's listed under casual or apprentice to see what 1 means.

Either remove the rank all together and go with C,A,S,E,M or list the names fully, or agree on the rank system.

And also, for the record, Apprentice is actually R1+, so casual and first 100 of any skill is technically rank 0+, so whoever made the initial list was right.   I just would like to have an agreement on format and them clean up the mess.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Shalq on 00:19:26 - 03/10/10
Never spoken in this topic as far as I remember, but seems like I have to add something here, since I made maaany edits recently.



1. Gathering, tiers, blablablabla.
I'll make it clear and simple: casual = 0, apprentice = 1, seasoned = 2, expert = 3, master = 4. That's all. And You can read exactly that info here: http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Gathering
There shouldn't be any discussion about "Are we going to call casual rank 0 or 1 guys?". Casual means rank 0.  Eot.

Class tiers: adventurer = rank 0,  scout/fighter/recruit/novice = 1,  mercenary/cleric/... = 2,  slayer/summoner/pyro/... = 3. Check this page if You're gonna disagree with me: http://www.estiah.com/class .  Eot.


Now something about items @wiki.
If You meet an item page, where You see sth like "can be found when doing XX gathering (rank X)", and You see that there is info about only the rank of skill required, PLEASE CHANGE IT to casual/apprentice/seasoned/expert/master.  Because at the moment (as You can also see while reading some posts in this topic) the ranks listed as 0,1,2,3,4 are reeeaaaally confusing...  Why? It's simple... When You're at the gathering page in game, there are things like:
Quote
Seasoned Vita Gatherer                [Gather]
Collecting Category:                     Vita
Required Skill:                             Condenser (Rank 2)
When a player needs an information about XX item, and/or wants to know what he can find doing 'expert kata gatherer' for example, he goes to the wiki, and then the only simplest and the most certain info for him is NOT just the number.



2. Charm and dungeon templates.
They are hard to edit.  If a newly user notices a mistake/completely wrong information/typo, he won't fix it. Because he will be discouraged from doing it: "What the hell is this?  How am I supposed to change it?  Won't I mess up everything if I improve some things here?". Yes You can argue about the preview function, or that 'incompetent' users should not even bother editing, but... Ya know, estiah-wiki needs as many percipient editers as possible. There's still so much work to do, so many things to improve, so many pages to edit (even if only cosmetically), and templates only bring even more work to do.
No, of course I'm not trying to say that every single template should be destroyed, and making any new should be prohibited! I realise some of them monstrously help the wiki in looking much more neat, but as I said - many of them brings too much work to do, and the effects aren't really that impressive, and even more - not everyone is liking them.

@Toshimo - because I see that You have some strange deep grief about that HolyGrace Square edit... and I've got no idea why, because I've edited almost every dungeon in that way long time before this one - NO ONE complained and they really look much better & clean now (are You seriously disagreeing with it? Or are You disagreeing just to disagree?)...
Editing pages but not adding anything new to them doesn't mean deleting/destroying the content (someone's work). You're mistaking the terms.



---
Yeah well, I know You all can complain that I'm (luckily not only me haha) not adding any comment/explanation/documentary to 85% of my edits - the big and the small ones. I'm sorry, but editing is already a very time-consuming activity (at least for my life). Yeeees yes, I know what You will say now ^^
I'm just sorry. Will try to remember to add them in the future   8)  
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Aplsos on 00:53:37 - 03/10/10
oh, are you the one who keeps spreading out level/hp/spirit onto their own lines on the dungeon pages?  because if you keep doing that, i'm going to kill your dog.  that is pig ugly formatting.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Shalq on 01:38:27 - 03/10/10
oh, are you the one who keeps spreading out level/hp/spirit onto their own lines on the dungeon pages?  because if you keep doing that, i'm going to kill your dog.  that is pig ugly formatting.
Oh really?  Then why didn't You say anything @wiki?
I changed the dungeons a long time ago (changed one or two, waited some time, but people didn't react in any way, so I continued the work). Why didn't You use Main page's or my User page's discussion page (Talk page)?
Why do You say this only after I posted here?

Seriously, do we need some special permissions from someone, before taking some actions? There is no real dungeon-writing pattern at the wiki, that we should stick to. And You know... You should check [@history] how the dungeons were messed up before. Not only in a cosmetic way. And I understand why no one cared to make them equally-looking: It was a pain to fix and clean some of them.
And remember that being accustomed to the old listing/displaying doesn't mean that they're looking ugly now.
But feel free to implement a good template that everyone will like + what I wrote in my previous post, gl.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Wolfsoul on 08:34:45 - 03/10/10
http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Crimson_Kata_Mines
http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=HolyGrace_Square

btw, <3 this topic
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 10:50:25 - 03/10/10
Just a heads up I added a hidden line before the charm info tables (the big colorful tables) that should help people edit them.  Basically it tells them where to click in order to get to the page to edit them, which also has a hidden line talking about how to edit them.  Unless I forgot to put it in when I was doing them.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Shalq on 15:40:44 - 03/10/10
http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Crimson_Kata_Mines
http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=HolyGrace_Square

btw, <3 this topic
I didn't say that I changed 100% dungeons.  I made a mistake writing my first post - I was thinking about low- and mid-lvl dungeons, but said "almost every" ._.  Didn't have the time and willingness lately, to make any serious edit.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Wolfsoul on 15:43:34 - 03/10/10
crimsonkatamines > holygrace

main reason, when reading in english you read from left to right, not from top to down, cause right now it is like that in holygrace
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Freyajack on 15:57:28 - 03/10/10
crimsonkatamines > holygrace

main reason, when reading in english you read from left to right, not from top to down, cause right now it is like that in holygrace

I agree.  Without knowing who made which, I have to say that Crimson Kata Mines is much easier on the eyes.  In particular I feel like the HolyGrace page has too much whitespace.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Zruda on 16:25:27 - 03/10/10
+1 for Crimson Kata Mines page.
It might be a nice idea to create a pseudo-template page with a made-up dungeon with all the different variants of fights, attributes, drops, enemies and allies that everyone could just copy off of (heck, if CKM had a fight with allies, it would be the perfect model dungeon page). Dtto for a pseudo-charm template etc.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Freyajack on 15:59:31 - 03/12/10
Quick question - when I look at discussion pages I see things like:

Blah blah.  --[[Special:Contributions/60.230.3.194|60.230.3.194]] 06:41, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Is there an easy way to add in a link to your user page plus the time?  I always just add --[[User:Freyajack|Freyajack]] by hand, but if there's a shortcut I'd love to know it.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 16:22:16 - 03/12/10
Quick question - when I look at discussion pages I see things like:

Blah blah.  --[[Special:Contributions/60.230.3.194|60.230.3.194]] 06:41, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Is there an easy way to add in a link to your user page plus the time?  I always just add --[[User:Freyajack|Freyajack]] by hand, but if there's a shortcut I'd love to know it.  Thanks!

Try: ~~~~

http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Signatures
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Blacksol on 00:19:38 - 03/13/10
crimsonkatamines > holygrace

main reason, when reading in english you read from left to right, not from top to down, cause right now it is like that in holygrace

I agree.  Without knowing who made which, I have to say that Crimson Kata Mines is much easier on the eyes.  In particular I feel like the HolyGrace page has too much whitespace.

I agree that CKM is easier to read for me than Holy Grace Square
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Shalmirane on 09:41:13 - 03/14/10
I've visited some location I've not been yet to and prepared to paste story about them to relevant pages in wiki (if they don't have them).
I checked those, when I placed story before and saw, that somebody is removeing them. In Soul Harvester's Lab ( http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Soul_Harvester%27s_Lab&action=history ) it's Shalq.

May I know the reason for removing stories from dungeon's pages? Because shalq didn't placed any comment to his modification.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Shroud on 09:55:38 - 03/14/10
I've visited some location I've not been yet to and prepared to paste story about them to relevant pages in wiki (if they don't have them).
I checked those, when I placed story before and saw, that somebody is removeing them. In Soul Harvester's Lab ( http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Soul_Harvester%27s_Lab&action=history ) it's Shalq.

May I know the reason for removing stories from dungeon's pages? Because shalq didn't placed any comment to his modification.

I think it's because there's an adventurer's diary link on the home page that shows all the story lines from each dungeon, as opposed to the dungeon links, which show dungeon content. See here: http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Adventurer%27s_Diary
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Shalq on 23:59:22 - 03/14/10
I've visited some location I've not been yet to and prepared to paste story about them to relevant pages in wiki (if they don't have them).
I checked those, when I placed story before and saw, that somebody is removeing them. In Soul Harvester's Lab ( http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Soul_Harvester%27s_Lab&action=history ) it's Shalq.

May I know the reason for removing stories from dungeon's pages? Because shalq didn't placed any comment to his modification.
You should check Main Page's discussion page.
I've moved all stories from dungeon pages to http://www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Category:Adventurer%27s_Diary

There are some empty pages though, but I can't fill them because I haven't got a high lvl character able to clear those dungeons.

Now the only thing about stories of dungeons in their pages is a link to adequate story. Those links still have to be added in most of the dungeons' pages, though.


---
I started changing the dungeons to a better "from left to right" format ("from up to down" is a little better in my opinion, but I see that You guys don't like it - okay, no problem ^^)
I hope You like it http://www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=The_Underground_Academy
Tell me if You want it to be a final 'format' (except the missing amounts of drugged students' charms ofc).
If not, create a vgood template, show it here, and we can debate.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 13:33:47 - 03/25/10
Not so fond of the big space after versus.  Maybe 86 a blank line? I'm also getting Mithril Short Swords' quantity pushed off to the next line, though that may be unavoidable.

I've reworked the class charm template again.  New version is on my userpage:
http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=User:Velkrin (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=User:Velkrin)
Here's a comparison page:
http://www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Template:Axeinfo (http://www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Template:Axeinfo) - Note to self: In dire need of update


So basically I added the Class column, which had previousl Thi y been in the 'Type' column, and in it's own section on a different template (which had to be shoved into ANOTHER template to get it to display properly, or maybe that was something else, it's been awhile) before that, as seen on the axe page.

Not really a big change but I do like to have the class separated.  I also included several cell padding changes.  I'm thinking 1 or 2 would be best.

Edit: Alright, since no one has any comment I'll switch them over to the new format. This long process involves changing thousands of lines of text, so it may take upwards of an hour.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Glissa on 16:56:24 - 03/27/10
Move the class charm into a separated form is much better. A berserker will browse 3-10 different weapon templates. That means, in all people who watch axe template, less than 33% is berserker. Most people know every class charm they have and didn't want to see unusable class charm in most templates.

In my opinion, gold is not a kind of requirement of charm. It should be moved to the end of row.
Padding is not important. Maybe change the color of attributes (such as green number of "dex”) is more meaningful.

And many templates need update. If anyone wants to improve wiki charminfo, this work is more worthy than ameliorate the format of template.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Shalq on 17:27:01 - 03/27/10
I agree with Glissa.
I checked what You've done, and I must say that mixing class-charm tables with 'normal' charm tables was a very bad idea. As Glissa said; most people know every class charm they have/will have, and they don't want to see "unusable because not my class" charms while searching for some, for example, Swords. There was nothing wrong in two separated tables.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 17:41:57 - 03/27/10
Quote
Move the class charm into a separated form is much better
Assuming you meant "moving the class charms..." it was already in a separate template, the Charminfoclass template.    People didn't like that much, so later templates folded the charm into the standard list.  This lead to the required class being listed under skill, and later a class link in the type column.  The update was a middle ground between the two.  Class is clearly displayed - which could have been done without this change but hindsight will make you bump into things - and it's out of the way.

Quote
In my opinion, gold is not a kind of requirement of charm. It should be moved to the end of row.
I've found that I typically need gold to buy/craft charms, hence the reason it's listed as a requirement.

Quote
Padding is not important.
Starwarskid disagrees. (http://forum.estiah.com/index.php?topic=1727.msg44092#msg44092)  It's almost purely ascetic, but does look better.

Quote
Maybe change the color of attributes (such as green number of "dex”) is more meaningful.
See, if we did that then we'd end up with 3 more colors in the table.  Right now it follows the standardized Dex/Pow/Int/Con design which is used throughout the wiki on the pages that were updated after we decided to make it standardized.  Then there's the issue with colorblind users which is a mess we can skip for now.

Quote
And many templates need update. If anyone wants to improve wiki charminfo, this work is more worthy than ameliorate the format of template.
I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here.  Props for the use of ameliorate, but it looks like you're saying many of the wiki's templates need updates, but charminfo updating is more worthy then an update of charminfo?

If anyone wants to update a template then they can update the Items template. They're in dire need of an update.  Man those things are ugly.  The author should be ashamed of themselves.



Oh hell.  I just realized I may have inadvertently destroyed several templates based off of Charminfo. Whoops.

Ah well, it'll give em a reason to get back on the forums if only to yell at me.

Edit: Ah, Shalq, the alt of my nemesis.  Your time is at an end.  I've nearly completed my template which will cause any template you use to crash the wiki, thus forcing you to become banned.  Soon you'll feel my templates wrath, unless I forgot to close an internal link or something.

In all seriousness though why don't we just call it up for a vote
on the wiki
Slap some red bar thingy on the main page and let everyone voice their opinion (in here) and vote (on a page in the wiki).
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Glissa on 19:17:25 - 03/27/10
I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here.  Props for the use of ameliorate, but it looks like you're saying many of the wiki's templates need updates, but charminfo updating is more worthy then an update of charminfo?
Many templates doesn't contain new charms, or even incomplate. (Such as buffinfo and holyinfo). Add new charms into those templates is more meaningful than change the format which has long been accepted by most of users.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Shalq on 21:47:11 - 03/27/10
Edit: Ah, Shalq, the alt of my nemesis.  Your time is at an end.  I've nearly completed my template which will cause any template you use to crash the wiki, thus forcing you to become banned.  Soon you'll feel my templates wrath, unless I forgot to close an internal link or something.

In all seriousness though why don't we just call it up for a vote
on the wiki
Slap some red bar thingy on the main page and let everyone voice their opinion (in here) and vote (on a page in the wiki).
I'm not afraid of Your nasty templatzord! Nay can break my cumulative edits!!

And what happened to me, some time ago? I edited the low- and mid-lvl dungeons to more "up to down" style, and fixed many things about them. No one cared to make a comment about the new format @my user talk page, no one posted anything here, no one made an edit with a comment. My work has been commented after I said something in this topic... And what if I wouldn't?  At least Glissa aka Afterlife 'called' You via user talk page and I'm also telling You sth just after You made some edits, not few days after them   :laugh: 
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Freyajack on 01:50:56 - 03/28/10
I agree that class charms should be separated out from the main section of the template
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 16:34:31 - 03/30/10
So the voting page is up, so go vote.  It'll run for a week and it's got a big ugly red bar up on the main page for anyone else who visits.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 11:55:15 - 03/31/10
Due to a fairly large edit by someone who will rename nameless, mainly due to the fact I've forgotten the name of whodunit, the vote page has been taken down pending redesign.  The issue stems from the fact there are actually 3 versions of the template and the vote was for 2 of them.  I was debating redoing the vote for this reason so it's no big deal.

The new, but not put up yet version can be seen here:
http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=User:Velkrin

Before this version goes live, you have the chance to tell me if something is unclear, incorrect, or strange and confusing.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Merton on 18:49:15 - 03/31/10
Ah that's a relief. Glad the new poll is clearer. I don't participate much in the wiki stuff, but I really hated Mk2.

Mk3 is a happy compromise. 
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 11:31:17 - 04/01/10
Scheduled Wiki upgrade

Easter is here, I'll have some days to get things done, so I don't have any more excuses to postpone the wiki upgrade..  :'(
Consequence: Sometimes on Saturday the wiki will be locked for some time while I will do the upgrade.

I will also add a new extension: CheckUser on request form Velkrin

Active users may ask for more extensions before the upgrade. (Providing reason for it).
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 15:02:59 - 04/01/10
Scheduled Wiki upgrade
I will also add a new extension: CheckUser on request form Velkrin

Neat.  I'm a request form.  What size am I?  8.5" x 11"?  A4?  Dare I say...A0?

Guess I'll postpone the return of the vote then.  Oh and I put up a notice on the wiki's main page so it won't be unexpected.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 13:26:23 - 04/03/10
Wiki upgrade completed!

The Estiah community wiki (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Main_Page)'s underlying mediawiki portal software has been upgraded to the latest stable version (1.15.2). The upgrade went mostly smooth and the wiki is operational and ready for editing again.
:)

The CheckUsers extensions has also been added.

If you encounter any problems while viewing or editing the wiki, please post a description of the problem here or on the wiki and I will see to it.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 16:20:02 - 04/03/10
and now the vote is back up.  Thanks Skriticos.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 05:24:49 - 04/04/10
And now the vote is altered.  This is the last version I'm putting up.  Votes and comments cleared.  Time extended by about 36 hours, and a little note added about changing cell color.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Godfat on 13:26:10 - 04/04/10
And now the vote is altered.  This is the last version I'm putting up.  Votes and comments cleared.  Time extended by about 36 hours, and a little note added about changing cell color.
Thanks for the change. I'll miss colorized words just like Estiah itself. :p
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 07:25:25 - 04/05/10
Behold the CharmInfoTemplate Mk 4! Right here chief. (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=User:Velkrin)  Due to be complete sometime around Estiah 5.

Just an idea I'm playing with.

Edit: Limited Edition Mk 4 is no longer viable.  Collector's edition Mk 4.5 has dislodged it.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 16:54:14 - 04/11/10
Version 2.5 Wins. (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Charminfo_Template_Vote_Page)  Or technically version 3.5.  Whatever.  Someone might want to go update Tech, as a number of charms are missing information.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 15:04:07 - 04/17/10
I've been thinking about changing the setup of the Info Tables again.  Dropping Treasure and Rare and just making it Dungeon.  I'm also thinking about changing Craft to Event in the cases of where it's a secret shop in which you obtain the craft.

Comments?
Questions?
Death Threats?
Non-useful comments pointing out how this was a triple post given apparently very few people check this thread, or at least post in it?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 19:43:10 - 04/17/10
Non-useful comments pointing out how this was a triple post given apparently very few people check this thread, or at least post in it?

Oh, sure, I have a lot of them! :p
But at least I check the thread..

~me
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Toshimo on 21:08:15 - 05/01/10
Just as a heads up, a new user going by "Ant"  rolled through undoing a lot of Shalq's work by changing a bunch of charms from the format:
Code: [Select]
{{Charm|type=Vendor}}to
Code: [Select]
[[Category:Melee]]
[[Category:Magic]]
[[Category:Vendor]]
[[Category:Charm]]

I don't know how you want to handle this but I hate doing mass reverts.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Shalq on 01:20:40 - 05/02/10
Just as a heads up, a new user going by "Ant"  rolled through undoing a lot of Shalq's work by changing a bunch of charms from the format:
Code: [Select]
{{Charm|type=Vendor}}to
Code: [Select]
[[Category:Melee]]
[[Category:Magic]]
[[Category:Vendor]]
[[Category:Charm]]

I don't know how you want to handle this but I hate doing mass reverts.
Luckily I've deleted all charms from 'Melee' category, but not from 'Magic' yet. And he changed the charms which still belonged to 'Magic' category.
Well, all I can say is... Ambitions.

pre-posting edit; But seeing what this guy did not only to those mentioned pages, I smell a banstick in the air.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 03:15:19 - 05/02/10
We really should decide what categories we should use.

http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Special:Categories&limit=500

Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Shalq on 03:53:26 - 05/02/10
Done some edits (not only undone that "Ant's", that's why I used undo function only few times)
Still have to clean up that damned Category:Magic page



We really should decide what categories we should use.

http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Special:Categories&limit=500
1. Putting charms in 'Magic' and 'Melee' categories is totally useless, since there are too many charms that... deal damage Oo
2. 'Charm' category is in fact useful, because we can (will be able to...) see how many unique charms (usable by players ofc) we have in Estiah.
3. 'Attach Summon' will be useful if there will be more player-usable charms with this attribute.
4. Dunno what the hell are http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Template:Disambig and http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Template:Disambiguation for, but that "Categorizing templates" category seems to be useless.
5. Edited [Howling Wind]
6. 'Destroy Willpower' is very useful, I'll add more charms to this category. One thing: would "Willpower Destruction" be a better name?
7. Fighter's charms need to have {{Charm|type=Fighter}} in their code, I'll do it.
8. Edited [Faked Mercy]
9. Dunno about 'Self Spirit' category, not really useful.
10. Fixed 'Fighter' and 'Mercenary' categories.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 13:11:34 - 05/02/10
Got rid of +Int, +Int Item, the two Disambig pages Shalq mentioned (we have Disambiguation pages listed in yet another category), and Mob Combo.

Now the ones that caught my attention were as follows:

Let is begin the arguing of if we need them or not.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 13:56:58 - 05/02/10
Remember the last template poll ? We should set up another one like that, with all the actual categories, and vote the ones who are really useful. There are far to many categories in the wiki now ! Also, we should think about a way to make charms pages easy to create with all those categories. That's why I used to call the {{Charm|type=xx}} template whenever I edited a charm, but I guess more factoring work could be done :)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 09:51:02 - 05/03/10
Seems like it would be a bit of a hassle to have votes for every single category, or chaos to have votes for them all at once.  We should trim the list a bit first before releasing it into the crowd.  I'll setup a page on the wiki.

http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Wiki_Category_Voting

Here you go.  I've listed my suggestions for removal and why.  Feel free to add your own.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Aradan on 10:48:23 - 05/04/10
Regarding categories Charm, Mob Charm and Seal: are these supposed to be disjoint? I.e. a charm or seal belongs to either of the categories but never more than one. I noticed a few seals are also categorised as charms and I'm not sure if this is the preferred categorisation.

Also, I get the impression that rune (Axe, Fire, etc) and effect (Focus, Extra Action, etc) categories should only apply to player charms, not to mob charms and seals. Is this correct?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 12:21:33 - 05/04/10
Also, I get the impression that rune (Axe, Fire, etc) and effect (Focus, Extra Action, etc) categories should only apply to player charms, not to mob charms and seals. Is this correct?

I agree.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 13:22:06 - 05/04/10
Mob charms only get the Mob Charm category, nothing else.

Edit: And the new fire table is up.  This table is dedicated to Aradan, the only other person on the wiki to add massive amounts of information to the tables.

Remaining:  Earth and Lightning.

Apparently Ardan took care of almost the entire lightning chart.  Only Earth is left.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Aradan on 10:20:51 - 05/06/10
Apparently Ardan took care of almost the entire lightning chart.  Only Earth is left.
Actually, Aplsos did most of the work, I just took care of the low-ish level charms.

The {{Wardchart}} is lacking a few charms. It is also a major pita to update due to the alternating background colours. Should this be updated to the new charminfo template as well? I think the current {{Wardchart}} gives a better overview but it is inconsistent with other rune pages.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 13:52:39 - 05/06/10
I didn't touch the Armor/Ward/Willpower lists since I didn't do a quick list for them.  Hence the lack of big colorful table.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Aradan on 22:31:11 - 05/06/10
I think we need Template:disambig back. MediaWiki:Disambiguationspage linked to that template and without it, Special:Disambiguations doesn't work. If I understand things correctly that is.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 11:46:01 - 05/10/10
Special:Disambiguations links to pages that link to a Disambiguation page, rather than the actual page they are intended to link to.

In other news the bots have gotten worse lately.  Perhaps we should turn off anon-editing.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Freyajack on 20:13:11 - 05/10/10
In other news the bots have gotten worse lately.  Perhaps we should turn off anon-editing.

Yes please.  I suspect they will only get worse.  We probably got on some sort of list somewhere.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 10:11:49 - 05/11/10
Alright, now it's really gotten out of hand.  We're getting around 6-8 per day.  I've sent a message to the big S by land, by sea, and by air forum PM, in game PM, and wiki talk page to make sure he gets it.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 11:43:37 - 05/11/10
Alright, now it's really gotten out of hand.  We're getting around 6-8 per day.  I've sent a message to the big S by land, by sea, and by air forum PM, in game PM, and wiki talk page to make sure he gets it.

I have altered the configuration to ban the unholy hordes of anonymous bots. Should any unexpected problem arise, let me know.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 06:25:30 - 05/12/10
Well that was quick.  What can we get him to put in next?  Casual Friday?

Notes to self & others:
Bite (Plague Rat) redirects to Bite (Weak Imp).  Are they the same?
Gold Basilisk needs a Basilisk Stare and Basilisk Bite page
Leopard King needs a Instinct page
Pumpkin needs to be sorted out for a lot of pets.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 13:10:08 - 05/16/10
Right, the categories vote is up (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Wiki_Category_Voting_1).  We really should make some sort of 'Important News' page for this sort of thing.  Wiki votes, patches, etc, with links and all on one handy page instead of mucking up the main page with my announcements.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Toshimo on 05:34:06 - 05/17/10
Right, the categories vote is up (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Wiki_Category_Voting_1).  We really should make some sort of 'Important News' page for this sort of thing.  Wiki votes, patches, etc, with links and all on one handy page instead of mucking up the main page with my announcements.

Have you verified whether "Needs Content" is a default wiki category or not?   If it's part of the default schema, I highly recommend against removing it.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 07:24:54 - 05/17/10
I have no idea.  My Google-Fu has failed me and I'd ask on Yahoo Answers but I'm too lazy to sign up for a Yahoo Account.  We'll assume it's not because the second half of my screen name doesn't rhyme with Emo, but does rhyme with Win.

Or someone could go create another wiki in order to check.

One last thing: Vawned, if you're reading this I hereby declare Jihad against you since you voted against me all three times thus far.  Your doom will be fluffy and have an entirely excessive number of pointy ends.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Freyajack on 15:09:39 - 05/17/10
(I also posted this on the voting discussion page on the wiki, but I'm not sure how many people will read that.)

Maybe I missed this, but what is the reason behind removing categories? Even if they are largely unnecessary, how do they hurt the wiki? I view them as the equivalent of tags on blog posts. Many will be useless, but if you really need to find a specific type of charm to fill out your deck, it can be helpful. Also, we should bear in mind that the game is evolving. For all we know it will be very useful to easily list all the curses in the game come some new charm introduced in the next patch. Finally, for what it is worth, I used the Sacrifice page when leveling that skill, and the easiest way to have come up with that page in the first place would have been to leverage the category.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 15:30:38 - 05/19/10
Maybe I missed this, but what is the reason behind removing categories? I view them as the equivalent of tags on blog posts.

It's like power creep, only with categories.  People occasionally add something and it gets stuck in there.  The problem is that they tend to be either redundant, unnecessary, or horrifically out of date (see: Equalize Armor).  Then it becomes a question of remove or go through and have Shalq add categories to charm pages, hence the vote.

Quote
Also, we should bear in mind that the game is evolving. For all we know it will be very useful to easily list all the curses in the game come some new charm introduced in the next patch.
I took curse off because there were about a half dozen more charms that trigger with curse than I realized.  Votes were archived on the talk page.  It was losing(winning?) anyway so no big change.  Still, I'll revise the rules a little before the next section vote.

Quote
Finally, for what it is worth, I used the Sacrifice page when leveling that skill, and the easiest way to have come up with that page in the first place would have been to leverage the category.
Feel free to vote against it.  That one is running it's course.

In other news the Big S(kriticos) updated the side bar to include wiki updates and a link to the vote page.  I promptly edited his link and now we have a vote page with archive.  I suggest you pay attention to the bold text.  Props to Skriti for the side bar update.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 05:57:32 - 05/29/10
I give you, Info Template Mk 4.Something.  Maybe Mk 5.  I don't know.  Mk. Higher than the Previous Mk.

http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Template:Axeinfo2

Notable changes:
Gold Removed
Rare and Treasure drops are now Dungeon
Now lists which city you obtain it in

Optional Bits
Items crafted from boss drops are now Boss Craft (Epic overrides this)
Event (Secret) crafting shops are listed as Event.

Thoughts? Opinions? Assassination attempts?

FYI: I compressed the info template into charminfoshort for the other tables people make (EG: Life loss, multi-hit).

Edit: Clarified that it was Event shops, not ALL craft shops that are changed to Event.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Aplsos on 06:32:11 - 05/29/10
getting rid of the gold column's great, but the city column is stretching charms to two rows, which looks terrible
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 18:21:46 - 05/29/10
Three on my screen, and that was happening with the normal templates.  Anyway I fiddled with the city spacing a little and gave it THREE TIMES as much room.  The problem only really occurs every 5 levels due to shop charms.

In other news does anyone know how change text color in that infernal sidebar?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 23:31:35 - 05/29/10
In other news does anyone know how change text color in that infernal sidebar?

You mean the navigation bar on the left? Simple answer is: you don't.

More formal answer is: some CSS files have to be edited on the server, it can't be done from inside the wiki (AFAIK). If you do a new poll or something, you best add something like [new] to the sidebar voting link.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Aradan on 16:47:38 - 06/03/10
Thoughts? Opinions? Assassination attempts?
These are big tables, trying to put too much information in at once could lead to them just being more difficult to read. Less is more, as it were.

City seems rather redundant. Common shop charms are available in multiple cities but the locations should be fairly well known or linked to from the shop page. Location of other charms are already available from the dungeon/shop pages.

Boss craft: not very useful information IMO. Boss drops are usually available in the same city where the shop is located so these charms are often easier to craft than "normal" charms. No need to make the charms stand out.

Secret shop crafts on the other hand are more of a bother since they require jumping through more hoops. For me, a "Secret Craft" tag would be more interesting than "Boss Craft".

Another possibility is to tag charms with, for example, "Craft(B)" or "Craft(S)" and place a description in a footnote.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 12:47:10 - 06/05/10
Thoughts? Opinions? Assassination attempts?
City seems rather redundant. Common shop charms are available in multiple cities but the locations should be fairly well known or linked to from the shop page. Location of other charms are already available from the dungeon/shop pages.
Actually most of the shop pages do not contain the city information, hence the inclusion of the city bar.  The secret shops do, but not the normal shops.

Quote
Secret shop crafts on the other hand are more of a bother since they require jumping through more hoops. For me, a "Secret Craft" tag would be more interesting than "Boss Craft".
Crafts for secret shops had their type changed to Event.

Quote
Another possibility is to tag charms with, for example, "Craft(B)" or "Craft(S)" and place a description in a footnote.
That would require entirely too many footnotes.
Title: Re: Not sure where to post this:
Post by: Psycho3spe on 10:13:59 - 06/17/10
I discovered a mistake in the snowy bunny wiki table:
When feeding a peach to the bunny it gives -1 fitness, not + 3 ruse....
I don't know who can correct the mistake, but I'm writing in this thread because it was linked to the wiki.
Sorry for any inconvenience it may cause.
 
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 11:27:21 - 06/17/10
Looks like Shalq took care of it for you.  We really should update those things so it's easier for people to edit them.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 12:45:41 - 06/18/10
I've put together a few suggestions for improving the wiki.  List follows:

Suggestions for improving the wiki:

1. Find alternative to Quick Lists.
2. Update the item list template.
3. Have someone finish the item lists.
4. Create New Player Guide.
5. Appoint Shalq Official Charm Page Editor Extraordinaire.
6. Kill Shalq and appoint self Official Charm Page Editor Extraordinaire.
7. Non-new Player Help. (eg: Charms to farm, important skills for the late game)
8. Create page detailing how to make/edit charm/item pages.
9. Compile a list of commonly templates used on the forum and create help pages for editing them.
10. Figure out how the hell the Hrist's skill table works.
11. Update said table.
12. Give Hrist title of Annoying Complex Maker Extraordinaire.
13. Kill Hrist and take title of Annoyingly Complex Maker Extraordinaire.
14. Give 1000 bonus points to the first one who figures out all the easter eggs in this list.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Larcent on 03:26:59 - 06/23/10
I'm not sure how, but two of the new Ymar's furniture have been added twice (the armoire and the nightstand). Try as I might, I cannot see any differences in the page names, so I'm not sure how they got duplicated:

http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Category:Furniture (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Category:Furniture)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Lejes on 04:02:05 - 06/23/10
The apostrophe is different.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Shalq on 04:05:52 - 06/23/10
lol.
The one created earlier has " ' " in the name, mine has " ’ "  ;p
Same with "Ymar’s Grandfather Clock"...  I've created those two pages by clicking on the name in game (AllInOne script). Strange, because I did the same with Artificer's Strongbox and it has normal " ' "
Gonna change it
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 09:53:11 - 06/23/10
I was wondering if there is a way to create some generic Charm template to use for new charms page creation.

The generic info contained in this template would be the section titles, along with the systematic linking of stats and runes :)

Would that be possible without it to be too difficult to use...
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Darian on 21:29:20 - 06/23/10
I'm seeing a bunch of charms that have useless origin information right now

For instance, Abyss (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Abyss) lists the following:
Quote
Origin

Crafted in [[{{{1}}}]] from [[{{{2}}}]] :

Checking the edit info, it is input as:
Quote
== Origin ==
{{Crafted|where=Eclis|from=Spells of Mass Destruction}}

Guessing this is a template gone wrong, but a lot of charms seem to be affected.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 22:00:53 - 06/23/10
Ok, this is totaly my fault. I made some tweak to those templates I created a while ago, to make them more easy to use, without realizing a bunch of charms where created by actually using this template... I'll try to track those occurences and correct them :)

Edit : made the template compliant with both ways, so people could keep on using them as they feel the most convenient :)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 09:25:09 - 06/29/10
Do you think it would be possible to install this useful extension : http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:StringFunctions ?

Thanks in advance :)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 10:06:58 - 07/04/10
Do you think it would be possible to install this useful extension : http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:StringFunctions ?

Thanks in advance :)

Well, for some reason, the StringFunctions don't want to work on the current configuration (they are there, just don't work).
The 1.16 version of MediaWiki will be out soon (hopefully) and the updated PraserFunctions will ship StringFunctions in the stock installation, so I'll be looking into it when I do the upgrade.
Until then, no StringFunctions, sorry.

~ skrit
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 13:13:41 - 07/04/10
Ok, thanks for the info. I can't wait for this to happen, StringFunctions will be soooo helpful in a lot of Templates :D
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 14:23:20 - 07/10/10
So the new charminfo vote is coming up.  I'll give you guys a chance to pick it apart before it comes up for a formal vote.

http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Wiki_Vote/Charminfo_Template_Vote_2
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Greatcatatonic on 17:47:53 - 07/10/10
Do we give input here or in the discussion tab on that page, or what?

--Great
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 18:14:20 - 07/10/10
Your choice.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 19:02:51 - 07/11/10
There were two traffic spikes this month on the wiki. Anybody from irvnca.pacbell.net (AT&T?/U.S.) doing some crawling / mirroring or something like that? Would be nice to drop me a line before doing that. Maybe there is a more efficient solution.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 04:56:36 - 07/19/10
I just took a look at the old wiki.  That is a hell of a lot of bots.  :o

I'm wondering why that wiki isn't down yet.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nipal on 10:56:02 - 07/19/10
Skriticos, are you the one hosting estiah wiki ? (thx for that btw.)
if wiki hosting becomes a problem again, please just us know. we can take that in any time if necessary.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 14:57:58 - 07/19/10
I just took a look at the old wiki.  That is a hell of a lot of bots.  :o

I'm wondering why that wiki isn't down yet.

That's because the old admin does not give a damn about it. It's a former player. He also hosts the guild forum of one of the upper guilds too, and they make him keep the host alive. Guess he just can't be inconvenienced to take the wiki down. But I don't know any specifics either, just putting together bits of info I heard before. My only contact was when I requested the wiki database to setup the new wiki host, and that was only very brief too.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 15:01:56 - 07/19/10
Skriticos, are you the one hosting estiah wiki ? (thx for that btw.)
if wiki hosting becomes a problem again, please just us know. we can take that in any time if necessary.

Yes, I'm the maintainer of the currently active wiki (at http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew).
Currently the hosting is paid for until sometimes Q1 next year (I think February), and traffic is well below limit + I'm actively maintaining it, so there is no problem. I might come back to the offer once the contract runs out though.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 06:14:30 - 07/22/10
I put a link up on the voting page.  Let's see if the general wiki population notices.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Slalderma on 22:18:38 - 07/27/10
How much, and in what form, should the KK questline get wiki'd?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Wolfsoul on 22:32:34 - 07/27/10
none or everything
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Sparky on 23:19:46 - 07/27/10
NONE
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 11:39:20 - 08/04/10
Wiki upgrade

Wiki's (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew) mediawiki has been upgraded to 1.16.0.

edit: also updated ParserFunctions to 1.3.0.
edit2: changed default skin to "vector" (same as other popular wiki's use) and added usability extensions.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 13:46:08 - 08/04/10
Ok, thanks a lot Skriticos  ;D

Thanks to your update, I was able to modify the Found template to integrate the "Fight" part (is singular when only one number is provided, plurar if more are provided).

Example : http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Shock
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Sparky on 23:50:54 - 08/04/10
Quote from: IRC
ThatGuy>   Oh shit
   <ThatGuy>   The wiki looks different
   <_^w^_>   it doesn't just *look* different, it *IS*
   <wl>   it looks worse
   <gordanball>   They moved the search box, *(@$&%
   <wl>   let's revolt!
   <wl>   uprise
   <_^w^_>   RAWR
   <wl>   cut of the head!
   * _^w^_   wields his mighty spoon
   <ThatGuy>   Remorseless R1 skills suck, damn
   <Sanaki>   [17:48:51] <gordanball> They moved the search box, *(@$&% <-- THIS
Any way the wiki users can change it (or to change it if it's not too much a bother)? :)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Shalq on 00:38:39 - 08/05/10
Wiki looks 'as always' when I'm logged in, but "newer" when logged out. Strange.

/edit; oh, I didn't notice 2nd edit in Skrit's post, thanks
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Sparky on 00:47:14 - 08/05/10
Wiki looks 'as always' when I'm logged in, but "newer" when logged out. Strange.
I just checked: Log in, then -> Preferences -> Appearance: Monobook is the old one (new is Vector, as mentionned by Skriticos)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Freyajack on 13:46:00 - 08/06/10
Since not everyone looks at the recent changes log on the wiki:

Talk:Spoilers/Tablet Seeker Quest

How do other people feel about having these spoilers up here? I thought we had a no spoilers policy? Freyajack 13:45, 6 August 2010 (BST)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Shalq on 14:54:00 - 08/06/10
I am really surprised that antiviper is putting it @wiki without any permission.
He/she didn't post here, didn't ask any wiki mod or even "old" player like Azharh / Slal / Sparky...

Info about secret/hidden events, like "cave of the ...", yaxion's remains, emerald coast, mirage tower, antechambers etc etc. is acceptable, because those are just fights. And wiki is specifically meant to help people in winning them, by giving info about, for example, mob-charms' effects and amount of respective charms.
BUT granting everyone "one-click easy-access" for all the secrets around is NOT the purpose of wiki. Neither with big red glowing and beeping transparents, nor without them. Just no.


Oh, and Azharh is right about gathering the info by 'individuals'
Quote
If people want help, it'll force them to communicate a little, via forum or PM, which IMO is a really good thing...
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Sparky on 15:53:40 - 08/06/10
I am really surprised that antiviper is putting it @wiki without any permission.
He/she didn't post here, didn't ask any wiki mod or even "old" player like Azharh / Slal / Sparky...

Info about secret/hidden events, like "cave of the ...", yaxion's remains, emerald coast, mirage tower, antechambers etc etc. is acceptable, because those are just fights. And wiki is specifically meant to help people in winning them, by giving info about, for example, mob-charms' effects and amount of respective charms.
BUT granting everyone "one-click easy-access" for all the secrets around is NOT the purpose of wiki. Neither with big red glowing and beeping transparents, nor without them. Just no.


Oh, and Azharh is right about gathering the info by 'individuals'
Quote
If people want help, it'll force them to communicate a little, via forum or PM, which IMO is a really good thing...
I as well as a few other "old players" were on IRC when Antiviper submitted the idea to us, as far as I understood it the aim wasn't to impose it on wiki but rather to wait and see how it'd be welcomed, what people would say about it. So I didn't strongly oppose the project myself, neither did most of the others who were online at this time.
Now Azharh definitely has a point, and anything "forcing" players to communicate, cooperate, etc. is a great thing in any online game, even more so when one such as Estiah doesn't have an "official" chat implemented in game.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Slalderma on 16:35:15 - 08/06/10
I am really surprised that antiviper is putting it @wiki without any permission.
He/she didn't post here, didn't ask any wiki mod or even "old" player like Azharh / Slal / Sparky...

Info about secret/hidden events, like "cave of the ...", yaxion's remains, emerald coast, mirage tower, antechambers etc etc. is acceptable, because those are just fights. And wiki is specifically meant to help people in winning them, by giving info about, for example, mob-charms' effects and amount of respective charms.
BUT granting everyone "one-click easy-access" for all the secrets around is NOT the purpose of wiki. Neither with big red glowing and beeping transparents, nor without them. Just no.


Oh, and Azharh is right about gathering the info by 'individuals'
Quote
If people want help, it'll force them to communicate a little, via forum or PM, which IMO is a really good thing...
I as well as a few other "old players" were on IRC when Antiviper submitted the idea to us, as far as I understood it the aim wasn't to impose it on wiki but rather to wait and see how it'd be welcomed, what people would say about it. So I didn't strongly oppose the project myself, neither did most of the others who were online at this time.
Now Azharh definitely has a point, and anything "forcing" players to communicate, cooperate, etc. is a great thing in any online game, even more so when one such as Estiah doesn't have an "official" chat implemented in game.

Posting to confirm the sequence of events; not endorsing nor discounting the spoiler idea.  Yet.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Bazabaza on 18:30:24 - 08/06/10
I am really surprised that antiviper is putting it @wiki without any permission.
He/she didn't post here, didn't ask any wiki mod or even "old" player like Azharh / Slal / Sparky...

Info about secret/hidden events, like "cave of the ...", yaxion's remains, emerald coast, mirage tower, antechambers etc etc. is acceptable, because those are just fights. And wiki is specifically meant to help people in winning them, by giving info about, for example, mob-charms' effects and amount of respective charms.
BUT granting everyone "one-click easy-access" for all the secrets around is NOT the purpose of wiki. Neither with big red glowing and beeping transparents, nor without them. Just no.


Oh, and Azharh is right about gathering the info by 'individuals'
Quote
If people want help, it'll force them to communicate a little, via forum or PM, which IMO is a really good thing...

I totally agree with this, as I've stated many times in the past already. say no to spoilers!
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Rescenin on 00:12:16 - 08/07/10
Agree, hidden plots/events need to be exclusive known.
That's why intern guild forum is useful.
It's not exciting anymore, if e.g. special decks for achievement 1 dungeon known publicly in wiki.
 
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 10:56:45 - 08/07/10
Thread Jack!

I made a To Do list for the wiki.  I'm wondering if it should be linked to in the side bar so people can see with ease and help out.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 19:22:03 - 08/09/10
Thread Jack!

I made a To Do list for the wiki.  I'm wondering if it should be linked to in the side bar so people can see with ease and help out.

I wouldn't mind, think it's a good idea. You know how to do it.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 09:31:26 - 08/10/10
Now this is a bit odd.  Apparently the Maintenance reports no longer work for me.  They just keep loading.
?
Edit: And my ability to access the wiki promptly ends for about a half-hour when I close the window.  Perhaps they're related?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Azharh on 13:12:06 - 08/10/10
Just added some "Usage" info to the Combo and Charm templates. If you think that's usefull, let me know, I'll also update the other templates :)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Remlin on 17:59:35 - 08/10/10
For whatever my vote's worth, I'm all for spoilers. "Spoiler's ruin the fun" is a weak argument - people enjoy games in different ways, let me be the one who decides what's fun for me.

But as long as that's what the policy seems to be, I'm not going to step on any toes. But do spoilers only refer to hidden events / treasure trail stuff? Are people going to start yelling if I add hidden charm effects to the wiki? (i.e., Burdens of Faith charms)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 08:46:06 - 08/11/10
Alright, I cleared out the unused templates (again) and the unused files.  I'm sure there are some dupes in there but someone else can fiddle with that.

Azharh: Looks good.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 17:17:00 - 08/12/10
Now this is a bit odd.  Apparently the Maintenance reports no longer work for me.  They just keep loading.
?
Edit: And my ability to access the wiki promptly ends for about a half-hour when I close the window.  Perhaps they're related?

I've rebuilt the indexes and refreshed the links. The pages seem to work at the moment, but they seem to be a bit fragile.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 13:30:11 - 08/16/10
Apparently checking the Unused Media special page will disrupt my ability to access the wiki in Chrome, but not Firefox.  Both of the browsers timeout on that for some reason.  On to my main point:

http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Commonly_Used_Templates (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Commonly_Used_Templates)

Have at it.

Oh and I've begun the update process for the skill tables.

http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Skill_Table_Update_Project (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Skill_Table_Update_Project)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 08:13:26 - 08/17/10
Update to the skill tables are complete.  Send in Freyajack to begin the change to Dex/Pow/Int/Con!
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Freyajack on 15:26:41 - 08/18/10
Update to the skill tables are complete.  Send in Freyajack to begin the change to Dex/Pow/Int/Con!

I changed the template and did a couple of skills to make sure it works.  We should get the rest of them pushed out as a high priority, as until then the wiki contains inaccurate information.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 16:00:20 - 08/18/10
and we're done.  That was easy.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 07:42:26 - 08/20/10
Vote is now active.  I'll let it run for a couple days and then put up a link on the main page for the 90% of the wiki users that won't notice.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Freyajack on 15:46:36 - 08/20/10
Perhaps we should also vote on the whole spoilers thing.  There are a bunch more explicit spoilers on the wiki now.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Antiviper on 16:04:50 - 08/20/10
I removed spoilers from the wiki already, they are moved to here (http://gilberthe.oni.cc/spoilers_tablet.htm).
Title: Rf the: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 14:36:50 - 08/26/10
Were Afterlife and Smashy intentionally left as "administrators" (Mods) of the wiki?
Title: Re: Rf the: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Antiviper on 19:16:47 - 08/26/10
Were Afterlife and Smashy intentionally left as "administrators" (Mods) of the wiki?

Afterlife(Ashling and Glissa in game) has retired from Estiah.
Title: Re: Rf the: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 09:50:16 - 09/02/10
Were Afterlife and Smashy intentionally left as "administrators" (Mods) of the wiki?

Guess I just didn't keep track of them. Removed them from the admin group now.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Velkrin on 11:38:19 - 09/02/10
Alrighty, I'll just remove them from the list, and change it so my name and Freyajack's name don't link to Skriticos' user page (apparently I wasn't paying attention to that copy/paste) and stick a Shalq reference in there.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Sparky on 15:36:27 - 09/04/10
(http://i56.tinypic.com/j6mkk7.png)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 08:22:46 - 09/13/10
(http://i56.tinypic.com/j6mkk7.png)

Happens once in a while. Probably a load limit issue from the error message, nothing serious - nor something I can change (have no access to the config files). Please don't expect über-reliable up-times for a privately funded hobby site.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 08:31:45 - 09/13/10
@Nipal, Estiah admins, devs:

I'm quite busy lately, so if you'd like to take over the wiki, I'd be glad to organize a migration to your servers. Please contact me in game or via eMail for arrangements.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Generic on 13:09:27 - 09/13/10
worst case scenario, i could host it.  pm me infos re: traffic, unique dailys, etc, if you're intersted.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 09:18:47 - 09/16/10
worst case scenario, i could host it.  pm me infos re: traffic, unique dailys, etc, if you're intersted.

Thanks, but it's not that urgent, and the service contract is payed until next year. It's just that I have little time to maintain it and Nipal mentioned they'd be glad to take it over.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Sheira on 09:32:31 - 09/16/10
Would it still be possible to get some statistics for traffic, hits, ...?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 09:53:12 - 09/16/10
Would it still be possible to get some statistics for traffic, hits, ...?

Sure:

Monthly history:
(http://h.imagehost.org/t/0825/monthly.jpg) (http://h.imagehost.org/view/0825/monthly)

Country summary:
(http://i.imagehost.org/t/0739/by-country.jpg) (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0739/by-country)

OS and Browser summary:
(http://i.imagehost.org/t/0641/os-browser.jpg) (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0641/os-browser)

Edit: ps, the bandwidth surge in the last months probably comes from the wiki update. It does much more database queries now and has a somewhat more elaborate markup, so I guess that somehow hit the stats. With a little caching optimization it should be easy to reduce this.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Blacksol on 14:17:27 - 09/16/10
hmm interesting... firefox at 83% for wiki users being nearly exact opposite of wider internet. Go greasemonkey go!!
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Generic on 15:58:35 - 09/16/10
hmm interesting... firefox at 83% for wiki users being nearly exact opposite of wider internet. Go greasemonkey go!!

Maybe in 2005... (http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 09:43:39 - 09/30/10
Lies, damn lies and a statistics update.

I set up a Google analytics account about a week ago for the site. Here is the summary for any dataphile forum visitor:

https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B9heLC4y5pD4NWI4ZGJiOWUtMjYxYS00NDQ2LWI0YWUtNGQ4YjkxYTRhYzIw&hl=en&authkey=CKekgnw
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Generica on 09:51:28 - 09/30/10
Under OS - Commodore 64 3 hits  :o
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Uraxor on 13:33:28 - 10/07/10
http://www.estiah.com/character/combat/replay/id/29010196/owner/62670

and yet
'Feral Rune: Spirit      Ghost Powder      Eversweep, Skyrift'
Inachis is missing there (chart under Pet's Runes)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Sparky on 13:36:45 - 10/07/10
http://www.estiah.com/character/combat/replay/id/29010196/owner/62670

and yet
'Feral Rune: Spirit      Ghost Powder      Eversweep, Skyrift'
Inachis is missing there (chart under Pet's Runes)
I believe you can directly edit the wiki (unless anything's changed there?).

Also, you don't want to use Blue Dragon Bone there, it kills your ward, you get debuffed AND the enemy steals your damage modifiers anyway ;)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Wercool on 23:42:28 - 10/31/10
i made a trick or treat page ;D
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Gabbin on 06:01:53 - 11/02/10
The wiki is usually pretty straightforward, but sometimes I just don't think to look in the right place... Is there currently a page listing every player charm in the game in the same fashion as the charms-by-rune are listed?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Freyajack on 15:17:56 - 11/02/10
The wiki is usually pretty straightforward, but sometimes I just don't think to look in the right place... Is there currently a page listing every player charm in the game in the same fashion as the charms-by-rune are listed?

I believe the answer is no.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Misha on 15:40:24 - 11/02/10
The charms-by-rune pages aren't even complete anyway.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Blacksol on 04:38:39 - 11/03/10
The wiki is usually pretty straightforward, but sometimes I just don't think to look in the right place... Is there currently a page listing every player charm in the game in the same fashion as the charms-by-rune are listed?

You could always go through and put a player tag on starwarskids (and others) list of all charms (http://www.disasterzone.net/~h4ngedm4n/estiah/CharmExplorer/charms.html)....  :P

Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nipal on 09:52:04 - 11/10/10
hmm i didn't see Skriticos' request about wiki migration back there like one month ago.
it would be good if anyone can host wiki, otherwise we'll can take it on our server.
to whoever in charge of wiki atm, i'd like to have an update on this issue please :)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 14:51:23 - 11/10/10
hmm i didn't see Skriticos' request about wiki migration back there like one month ago.
it would be good if anyone can host wiki, otherwise we'll can take it on our server.
to whoever in charge of wiki atm, i'd like to have an update on this issue please :)

Ah, don't worry, I changed my mind, I intend to host and maintain the wiki for at least another year.

~
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Alastair on 08:12:05 - 11/11/10
The wiki is usually pretty straightforward, but sometimes I just don't think to look in the right place... Is there currently a page listing every player charm in the game in the same fashion as the charms-by-rune are listed?

I believe the answer is no.

I believe the answer is "My, Gabbin.  But wouldn't that be a fun project?"

^.^
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nipal on 17:27:30 - 11/11/10
k thx a lot Skriticos :)
btw, can you send us a backup of the wiki database if possible please? now wiki is pretty filled up,
we'd like to have a copy so we can restore it in case of real emergency. thx in advance.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 08:13:34 - 11/12/10
k thx a lot Skriticos :)
btw, can you send us a backup of the wiki database if possible please? now wiki is pretty filled up,
we'd like to have a copy so we can restore it in case of real emergency. thx in advance.


That's agreeable. I sent you the download links in an ingame PM. ~
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Smashy on 07:04:01 - 11/24/10
Spammed pages reverted (like said on the wiki, if you see one of the spammed pages that I missed just revert it), Skriticos PMed ingame, Strike deployed and awaiting [Banhammer] for a [Ban Strike]

(Because Strike goes with everything)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 21:18:09 - 11/24/10
Spammed pages reverted (like said on the wiki, if you see one of the spammed pages that I missed just revert it), Skriticos PMed ingame, Strike deployed and awaiting [Banhammer] for a [Ban Strike]

(Because Strike goes with everything)

User got blocked by Freyajack and all the edits are rolled back now.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Drathnar on 09:22:27 - 11/25/10
Not too sure if this is the right place to post this, being fairly new here and all but anyway I would like to see some info regarding the various random monster encounters triggered on Gathering. Searched the new wiki and couldn't find much but in the old wiki there are some pages which are quite informative and shows some of the mobs encountered: http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Master_Vita_Gatherer
It is not complete though, couldn't find much for mobs encountered at Expert and lower Gathering levels.

Here's some info from my own fights, far from complete, but hoping more people will chip in and help fill in the blanks. Thanks a lot. :)

Apprentice
Young Crocodile L10 hp78 spi19; Bite destroy 5armor/14melee, Beast Blood 10ward/8armor
Bull Frog L11 hp80 spi19; Bubble Beam 13magic (38%), Beast Blood 13ward/10armor
Sea Hunter L15 hp90 spi21; Bite destroy 8armor/14melee, Splash 18magic (38%)

Seasoned
Enraged Zebra L19 hp132 spi23; Stomp 27melee (20%), Charge 37melee/stunned 1action, Harden Fur 32armor
Young Pyrolith L20 hp165 spi20; Flameburst 31magic
Giant Lemming L23 hp190 spi20; Invoke Lemming summons a lemming - Lemming does 10melee per turn
Needle Hedgehog L28 hp240 spi24; Needle Throw 29melee (45%), Poisoned Needle 7melee (45%)/ applies poison - Poison does 12magic per turn
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Shalq on 10:35:34 - 11/25/10
Not too sure if this is the right place to post this, being fairly new here and all but anyway I would like to see some info regarding the various random monster encounters triggered on Gathering. Searched the new wiki and couldn't find much but in the old wiki there are some pages which are quite informative and shows some of the mobs encountered: http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Master_Vita_Gatherer
It is not complete though, couldn't find much for mobs encountered at Expert and lower Gathering levels.

Here's some info from my own fights, far from complete, but hoping more people will chip in and help fill in the blanks. Thanks a lot. :)

Apprentice
Young Crocodile L10 hp78 spi19; Bite destroy 5armor/14melee, Beast Blood 10ward/8armor
Bull Frog L11 hp80 spi19; Bubble Beam 13magic (38%), Beast Blood 13ward/10armor
Sea Hunter L15 hp90 spi21; Bite destroy 8armor/14melee, Splash 18magic (38%)

Seasoned
Enraged Zebra L19 hp132 spi23; Stomp 27melee (20%), Charge 37melee/stunned 1action, Harden Fur 32armor
Young Pyrolith L20 hp165 spi20; Flameburst 31magic
Giant Lemming L23 hp190 spi20; Invoke Lemming summons a lemming - Lemming does 10melee per turn
Needle Hedgehog L28 hp240 spi24; Needle Throw 29melee (45%), Poisoned Needle 7melee (45%)/ applies poison - Poison does 12magic per turn

The main problem here is that no one really cares about monsters encountered while gathering.
I think the general pattern is: Earth deck is the worst option, and spirit+tank / spirit+[Pure Elixir] always work the best against them. (at least at the higher levels)

Feel free to add that info in the right format, anyways.

/e; typo
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 09:19:25 - 01/07/11
The underlaying MediaWiki software has been updated (1.16.0 -> 1.16.1).

This is a maintenance / security update.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 17:00:00 - 01/27/11
Some Muppet is spaming the wiki all day, so I put it in read only mode. Will resume read/write mode tomorrow.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 10:01:01 - 01/28/11
Editing enabled again.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 11:46:50 - 01/28/11
Spammers still present.

I added the ConfirmEdit extension, which ask a simple question on new page/account creation.
Hope this will inhibit the pesky intruders with moderate inconvenience (it's dissabled for normal editing).

.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Zenetar on 17:49:49 - 03/17/11
THAT'S WHAT I SEE WHEN I TRY TO VISIT WIKI
Quote
If you feel you have reached this page in error, please contact the web site owner:
webmaster@progenitor-softworks.com

It may be possible to restore access to this site by following these instructions for clearing your dns cache.
HOLY SHIT HOW COULD YOU LET THIS HAPPEN
I HAD TO BEAT RIVER'S EDGE TODAY AND NOW I'M STUCK
THIS GAME IS SO RETARDED
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Uraxor on 18:08:00 - 03/17/11
Seems I am not first who experiences problems with Wiki?
Anyhow, I got an error, and as I was requested I am forwarding it to the - hopefully - site admin.
What's wrong and what should I do to repair it?

Thanks for any help in advance! :)

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/4986/errordw.jpg
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Qqchampion on 23:00:38 - 03/17/11
THAT'S WHAT I SEE WHEN I TRY TO VISIT WIKI
Quote
If you feel you have reached this page in error, please contact the web site owner:
webmaster@progenitor-softworks.com

It may be possible to restore access to this site by following these instructions for clearing your dns cache.
HOLY SHIT HOW COULD YOU LET THIS HAPPEN
I HAD TO BEAT RIVER'S EDGE TODAY AND NOW I'M STUCK
THIS GAME IS SO RETARDED

a beautiful post, it brings a tear to my eye
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 02:47:34 - 03/18/11
The disk array of my provider had some technical difficulties (it crapped out). They are in the process of replacing it and restoring the data from backup. Takes blody ages, but should be fine in a while.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Uraxor on 09:07:00 - 03/18/11
back'n streamin' :)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Zenetar on 14:18:44 - 03/18/11
Zenetar receives item: [Captain's Necklace]
EPIC EPIC EPIC
THAT'S WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Uraxor on 16:02:16 - 03/26/11
Mind Cheer

Wiki says it drops from fights 2 & 3, and I just got it from f1;
http://www.estiah.com/character/combat/replay/id/33985147/owner/62670
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Zenetar on 16:13:58 - 03/26/11
Mind Cheer

Wiki says it drops from fights 2 & 3, and I just got it from f1;
http://www.estiah.com/character/combat/replay/id/33985147/owner/62670
pro tip: you can edit wiki by yourself
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Shalq on 17:08:05 - 03/26/11
Mind Cheer

Wiki says it drops from fights 2 & 3, and I just got it from f1;
http://www.estiah.com/character/combat/replay/id/33985147/owner/62670
blablabla seriously guys if YOU, YES ALSO YOU see some mistake, or misinformation, or a typo, or whatever thing that is completely wrong or only not perfectly correct - EDIT it.
Don't be afraid of creating an account, don't be afraid of editing even the smallest shits (but remember about using "preview" button!).
Don't wait for me or anyone else - do it by yourself and be proud of your little contribution.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Sparky on 17:55:45 - 03/26/11
WTF freaking slackers if YOU, YES I MEAN YOU PIECES OF SHIT see some mistake, or misinformation, or a typo, or whatever thing that is so obvious that even you jerks would spot or only not perfectly correct (but better make sure you're not the ones being wrong, YOU RETARDS) - EDIT the shit out of it FFS !!

Now don't be a goddamned sissy and create a bloody account already, don't be lazy slacker and go edit even the smallest shits (but remember about using "preview" button before you screw everything up you scumbags!!).
You don't need me or anyone else to babysit you and do your darned job for you - man up and do it by yourself you trash and be proud of your little meaningless contribution you useless piece of junk.
Translated for understandability puproses.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Uraxor on 02:13:25 - 03/27/11
sounds almost like a challenge to go find another tinies just to post them ..  :P

it's like 10 secs for you, about 5 mins for me ..
there indeed is 1 thing I could have done - providing the link - then it's really gonna take that time written, sorry about that, here you go.
Mind Cheer (http://www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Mind_Cheer)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Shalq on 13:21:58 - 03/27/11
/doublefacepalm
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Powerslave on 10:26:53 - 03/31/11
I'm about to update the pages concerning extra actions/stuns in relation to banes/curses/auras/summons, but I need some confirmation. Is this correct?

Extra actions:
- Banes are triggered on EAs, without decreasing their duration (i.e. they have an "extra" hit)
- Curses are triggered on EAs, but their duration is decreased normally
- Summons are NOT triggered on EAs
- Auras are NOT triggered on EAs
- You only get 20% of the ongoing damage modifiers (CPB) on EAs
- (anything else to add here?)

(Self) Stuns:
- Banes are NOT triggered on stuns
- Curses are NOT triggered on stuns
- Summons are triggered on stuns
- Auras are triggered on stuns
- (anything else to add here?)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Shalq on 12:46:26 - 03/31/11
I'm about to update the pages concerning extra actions/stuns in relation to banes/curses/auras/summons, but I need some confirmation. Is this correct?

Extra actions:
- Banes are triggered on EAs, without decreasing their duration (i.e. they have an "extra" hit)
- Curses are triggered on EAs, but their duration is decreased normally
- Summons are NOT triggered on EAs
- Auras are NOT triggered on EAs
- You only get 20% of the ongoing damage modifiers (CPB) on EAs
- (anything else to add here?)

(Self) Stuns:
- Banes are NOT triggered on stuns
- Curses are NOT triggered on stuns
- Summons are triggered on stuns
- Auras are triggered on stuns
- (anything else to add here?)
1. Curses trigger on stuns. As far as I remember that's why BP got changed from curse to a bane.
2. "You get only 20% of the ongoing damage modifiers (CPB) on EAs" should be changed to "(...) of both positive and negative ongoing (...)" because generally new players think that this is only regarding to positive ongoing, even when it's clearly stated as ongoing damage modifiers.
3. Someone must confirm whether banes lose their duration on stuns (I mean; even without triggering) or not. I think they're 'stopped' (no reduced duration) since delayed banes can't trigger on stuns. Or am I wrong? I'm too laaaaazy to check this out.
4. Using many EAs makes the user really vulnerable to "slowing" charms, that decrease resistance to dizziness: [a short list of them, or just an example like The Hug]
5. If the user reaches dizziness, auras and summons don't trigger, and banes/curser trigger normally.
6. Aura and summon duration is not prolonged on stuns, and not decreased on EAs.

just my 3 cents
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Toben on 15:05:28 - 03/31/11
1. Curses trigger on stuns. As far as I remember that's why BP got changed from curse to a bane.
Pretty sure nerfing BP by making it cleanse-able had more to do with it, but yeah: Curses always trigger.

Quote
2. "You get only 20% of the ongoing damage modifiers (CPB) on EAs" should be changed to "(...) of both positive and negative ongoing (...)" because generally new players think that this is only regarding to positive ongoing, even when it's clearly stated as ongoing damage modifiers.

If you want to get really technical, you could try to explain that this is only true when the game is already 100% sure you will have another action at the time the damage is being dealt, and so conditional EAs and EAs resulting from auras, etc. often do get full CPB boosts. Maybe also worth pointing out that +to next is not affected.

Quote
3. Someone must confirm whether banes lose their duration on stuns (I mean; even without triggering) or not. I think they're 'stopped' (no reduced duration) since delayed banes can't trigger on stuns. Or am I wrong? I'm too laaaaazy to check this out.

Banes do not lose duration when they don't trigger on stuns.

Quote
4. Using many EAs makes the user really vulnerable to "slowing" charms, that decrease resistance to dizziness: [a short list of them, or just an example like The Hug]
5. If the user reaches dizziness, auras and summons don't trigger, and banes/curser trigger normally.

Yeah, might be worth putting a list. AFAIK, the only dizziness resistance decreasers are The Hug, Kiss of Lesath, Thundering Blow and Freeze Joints. Only (player-usable) dizziness resistance increaser is Champion's Crest. Maybe have a separate third page on dizziness, rather than putting all this stuff under EAs?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Sparky on 15:42:01 - 03/31/11
Quote
4. Using many EAs makes the user really vulnerable to "slowing" charms, that decrease resistance to dizziness: [a short list of them, or just an example like The Hug]
5. If the user reaches dizziness, auras and summons don't trigger, and banes/curser trigger normally.

Yeah, might be worth putting a list. AFAIK, the only dizziness resistance decreasers are The Hug, Kiss of Lesath, Thundering Blow and Freeze Joints. Only (player-usable) dizziness resistance increaser is Champion's Crest. Maybe have a separate third page on dizziness, rather than putting all this stuff under EAs?
Hypnotic Pendulum too.

As to make 5. clear, just say that the action when the player becomes dizzy remains but an EA after all and thus all the characteristics of EAs are verified, meaning banes do trigger but their duration won't go down.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Powerslave on 16:02:37 - 03/31/11
Thanks for the feedback. Here is the "result":
http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Extra_Action
http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Category:Self_Stun
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 19:15:27 - 04/12/11
Wiki has been updated with the newest patch. Snoring like a cat (hopefully).
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 17:49:37 - 07/06/11
Two years later, and I can't remember my wiki account (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=User:Hrist) password.

Help?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Kadafan on 06:21:56 - 07/07/11
I found myself starting this because I was in a position in which I wanted to easily tell at a glance the duration of certain banes. Is this useful to anyone but me or should I just abandon the effort:
http://www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Template:Banechart
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Hrist on 14:24:17 - 07/07/11
Two years later, and I can't remember my wiki account (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=User:Hrist) password.

Help?
FYI, I asked for help because there is no e-mail address linked to my wiki account; ergo, I need admin intervention to reset my pwd or inject an e-mail address.  If you can help, please PM me the new pwd (or PM to request an e-mail address).  Thanks.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Shalq on 16:40:12 - 07/07/11
Two years later, and I can't remember my wiki account (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=User:Hrist) password.

Help?
FYI, I asked for help because there is no e-mail address linked to my wiki account; ergo, I need admin intervention to reset my pwd or inject an e-mail address.  If you can help, please PM me the new pwd (or PM to request an e-mail address).  Thanks.
FYI, not everyone is sitting on wiki and this forum 24/7.
I don't see any option to change other's password or even an email. If "E-mail new password" button at the log in page doesn't work for you, then create new account and this time add your email, or pm the current owner of wiki, Skriticos. I think he will be able to help you somehow.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Drakon on 17:07:15 - 07/07/11
[...]pm the current owner of wiki, Skriticos. I think he will be able to help you somehow.
Except certain circumstances prevent him from having access to the internet at the moment.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 21:50:26 - 07/12/11
[...]pm the current owner of wiki, Skriticos. I think he will be able to help you somehow.
Except certain circumstances prevent him from having access to the internet at the moment.

Yup. I'm moving, and busy with work.

.. well, mostly busy, though I'm online most of the time, so if excrement's hit the fan, I care.

I'm not logged in all that much lately, so better eMail me if something is up (seth.kriticos[at][bigsearchengine]mail.com)

Diving in the wiki database and resetting passwords does not fall into this category though, sorry.

Just create a new account.

ps: I also did something resembling an admin and updated the Mediawiki to the newest version (1.16.3 -> 1.17.0).
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Gabbin on 22:49:32 - 07/17/11
The search box autocomplete seems to have stopped working.. Is that on my side or yours?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Flame123 on 22:53:51 - 07/17/11
The search box autocomplete seems to have stopped working.. Is that on my side or yours?
It stopped for me as well.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 08:21:35 - 07/31/11
The search box autocomplete seems to have stopped working.. Is that on my side or yours?
It stopped for me as well.

Yup, that was a bug. Fixed.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Gabbin on 08:23:06 - 07/31/11
Thanks!  :)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 22:30:47 - 11/13/11
@ estiah staff
Hi. I kind of stopped playing the game some time ago (think of months - busy with work and stuff), so I'd like to pass on the wiki on to you before it run's into issues.

Now, the hosting is paid for like until February and there are no technical issues atm (as far as I can tell), so there is no rush.
But if you are interested in keeping it, give me an address where I can send the database + setup to - so you can host it at your place.
Once set up, I'll point visitors to the new wiki until the current site goes down.

You can contact me at seth.kriticos@googlemail.com

Generally, thanks for the ride ~
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Powerslave on 12:55:23 - 01/11/12
@ estiah staff
Hi. I kind of stopped playing the game some time ago (think of months - busy with work and stuff), so I'd like to pass on the wiki on to you before it run's into issues.

Now, the hosting is paid for like until February and there are no technical issues atm (as far as I can tell), so there is no rush.
But if you are interested in keeping it, give me an address where I can send the database + setup to - so you can host it at your place.
Once set up, I'll point visitors to the new wiki until the current site goes down.

You can contact me at seth.kriticos@googlemail.com

Generally, thanks for the ride ~

Any news about this? It's the middle of January and it would be a shame to lose all that useful info... Lez? Nip? Anybody?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 19:36:57 - 01/27/12
@ estiah staff
Hi. I kind of stopped playing the game some time ago (think of months - busy with work and stuff), so I'd like to pass on the wiki on to you before it run's into issues.

Now, the hosting is paid for like until February and there are no technical issues atm (as far as I can tell), so there is no rush.
But if you are interested in keeping it, give me an address where I can send the database + setup to - so you can host it at your place.
Once set up, I'll point visitors to the new wiki until the current site goes down.

You can contact me at seth.kriticos@googlemail.com

Generally, thanks for the ride ~

Any news about this? It's the middle of January and it would be a shame to lose all that useful info... Lez? Nip? Anybody?

Hm, I have decided to renew the subscription, as the server is quite useful.
So in short, the wiki is secure for another year.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Powerslave on 22:08:18 - 01/27/12
Hm, I have decided to renew the subscription, as the server is quite useful.
So in short, the wiki is secure for another year.

Let us all praise your name. Thanks!
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Bazabaza on 00:29:11 - 01/28/12
indeed, thank you!
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Gabbin on 17:24:08 - 02/10/12
Just wanted to thank and re-thank everyone putting work into the Wiki!
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Giab on 20:33:18 - 02/20/12
Yes, thanks indeed, and for the contributors!
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Pookie on 19:01:56 - 05/05/12
Need some assistance from people who know about this newfangled template stuff.

I just added the new Probabilities skill to the Lumina academy listing and attempted to make a new page for the skill by copying the content of another skill page and modifying the details. However, the entire table describing the class is based on some templates that I can't make sense of. I just wrote in the details so they'd be on the page, but somebody else will have to put them into the table.

http://www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Probabilities (http://www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Probabilities)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Qiva on 23:58:49 - 05/05/12
Wiki seems to be down today :(
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Uraxor on 16:46:54 - 05/06/12
It was down most of yesterday as well, it wrote that it exceeded the max_user_limit ..
what I am getting now is;
Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /ew/index.php on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
Apache/2.2.22 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.2.22 OpenSSL/0.9.8e-fips-rhel5 mod_auth_passthrough/2.1 mod_bwlimited/1.4 FrontPage/5.0.2.2635 Server at www.progenitor-softworks.com Port 80


dunno what to do?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Sparky on 17:57:31 - 05/06/12
It was down most of yesterday as well, it wrote that it exceeded the max_user_limit ..
what I am getting now is;
Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /ew/index.php on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
Apache/2.2.22 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.2.22 OpenSSL/0.9.8e-fips-rhel5 mod_auth_passthrough/2.1 mod_bwlimited/1.4 FrontPage/5.0.2.2635 Server at www.progenitor-softworks.com Port 80


dunno what to do?

Besides sending him an email, not sure there's anything we can do.
You can contact me at seth.kriticos@googlemail.com
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Pookie on 05:35:16 - 05/07/12
I hope I didn't break it trying to make that page. >_>

It worked as of when I made that post about it.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Sparky on 14:44:09 - 05/07/12
It is back, it is back! Bring the news to the kingdom already, the wiki is back!

Let's share a keg of ale to celebrate! Hoping it'll be down again soon enough and then back up so we can follow up with another keg...
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nipal on 13:47:53 - 05/09/12
as always, we can take wiki to our server if the current admin no longer wishes to maintain it.
just let you guys know that we're available.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Pookie on 22:10:43 - 05/09/12
...Did the server wonkiness erase recent edits? My Probabilities additions aren't there now.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Uraxor on 01:42:48 - 09/22/12
 ??? :-X :( >:(

http://www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Main_Page

404 Not Found

The server can not find the requested page:

    www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Main_Page (port 80)

Please forward this error screen to www.progenitor-softworks.com's WebMaster.
Apache/2.2.23 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.2.23 OpenSSL/0.9.8e-fips-rhel5 mod_fcgid/2.3.6 mod_auth_passthrough/2.1 mod_bwlimited/1.4 FrontPage/5.0.2.2635 Server at www.progenitor-softworks.com Port 80
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 18:35:53 - 12/02/12
Hi. Short info:
Still not actively maintaining the wiki, but I'm renewing the hosting subscription, so the site hosting will be up for another year (and probably the wiki too).
Seth
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Uraxor on 22:41:38 - 12/02/12
Hi. Short info:
Still not actively maintaining the wiki, but I'm renewing the hosting subscription, so the site hosting will be up for another year (and probably the wiki too).
Seth

That's awesome! :)
It feels like Estiah literally stands and falls with the Wiki. I can't imagine playing without it anymore. Lots of the scripts would be gone as well.
(And not even so much for the dungs - most of the guilds have guides anyway - as for the items info)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nipal on 12:01:17 - 12/03/12
thx seth.

as usual, we're ready to take wiki in on our server whenever needed.

(btw, players nowadays are such lazy asses because of the internet,
in 80's we had to find out every game secret ourselves !)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Powerslave on 16:24:13 - 12/03/12
I'm renewing the hosting subscription, so the site hosting will be up for another year (and probably the wiki too).

Thanks a million, Seth!
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 10:03:29 - 12/11/13
Goodness, another year passed already!
I'm renewing the hosting subscription for another year. Wiki will stay where it is.
Anyone still around by the way?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nipal on 16:36:26 - 12/11/13
yep, we're still around :)
thank you for your continuous support!
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Ayleth on 18:52:31 - 12/11/13
Thank you for everything. Without the wiki players like me would lose their very lifeline  :laugh:
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 14:20:32 - 05/20/14
In case anyone wonders about the internal error page: I'm just performing a long needed update to the wiki and the server is uncooperative with the new software.

I have a full backup of the database and files and a working local copy, so there is nothing to worry about.

I have contacted the tech support of my host and hope to resolve issue quickly. Please be patient.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 15:11:39 - 05/20/14
Wiki updated to the newest version. Seems to work now. I'll keep an eye on it the next days.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nipal on 16:56:36 - 05/20/14
thanks as always.

about e2 wiki, we are thinking about handling it ourselves. not quite sure yet.
but if there's someone as dedicated as skriticos willing to that, we can also let him work on that :)
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Quazee on 04:33:22 - 05/21/14
Wiki updated to the newest version. Seems to work now. I'll keep an eye on it the next days.

Thanks. Please take care of the reemerging spam (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&days=3&from=&limit=500).
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 07:51:54 - 05/21/14
Wiki updated to the newest version. Seems to work now. I'll keep an eye on it the next days.

Thanks. Please take care of the reemerging spam (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&days=3&from=&limit=500).

Oh my.. Looks like someone manually slaved away to spam the wiki. Removed the spam and changed the user creation question. Let's see if it continues. Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 08:41:54 - 05/21/14
thanks as always.

about e2 wiki, we are thinking about handling it ourselves. not quite sure yet.
but if there's someone as dedicated as skriticos willing to that, we can also let him work on that :)


I wouldn't mind to add an e2 wiki to the site. Maintenance-wise it would be little overhead (all the head scratching is done with the first update :) ).
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Nipal on 10:47:13 - 05/21/14
mediawiki is really easy to set up, we just don't have much time to deal with day-to-day chores like spam removal, template managing, admin stuff etc.
skriticos, if you're up to deal with e2 wiki too, you have our many thanks ^^
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 19:55:41 - 05/22/14
mediawiki is really easy to set up, we just don't have much time to deal with day-to-day chores like spam removal, template managing, admin stuff etc.
skriticos, if you're up to deal with e2 wiki too, you have our many thanks ^^

I can do that. I might be able reuse some of the templates from the current wiki if the gameplay is similar to the current game and set up the general sections like they are in the current wiki, then let the community take over the content and focus on maintenance.
Could you give a rough timeline for the e2 release? Can you grant me access to the beta channel so that I can  prepare the wiki?
Title: Re: Wiki Coordination Thread
Post by: Skriticos on 11:06:19 - 12/08/14
Quick update: I'm not doing a Wiki for Estiah 2, because I'm busy with other obligations..
However, I will keep the original Wiki around as long as it gets notable traffic / the game stays online.