Author Topic: Improve logs readibilty  (Read 2803 times)

Hugliston

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Improve logs readibilty
« on: 17:42:51 - 06/01/14 »
Logs in Estah 1 were important to master the fights and so are E2 ones.

I'm a visual guy, so the clearer the logs , the longer I'll check them.

I'd find the logs more readable if there is some space between the logs of my char/team and those from the mobs/opponents.

For example :

- an empty lines between my char actions and opponent ones
- my char/team left align, and opponents right align
- ...

What do you think about it ?
« Last Edit: 17:44:46 - 06/01/14 by Hugliston »

Gabbin

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Re: Improve logs readibilty
« Reply #1 on: 23:13:30 - 06/01/14 »
I like the alignment idea.

I've gotten used to just typing in the mobs name and quickly checking its charms, but the alignment thing would make the log prettier and easier to read as a whole.
Everythings easier in pseudocode!

Misha

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Re: Improve logs readibilty
« Reply #2 on: 06:12:49 - 06/02/14 »
- an empty lines between my char actions and opponent ones
- my char/team left align, and opponents right align

Both of these sound good.  Maybe color coding the names too.

Nipal

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Re: Improve logs readibilty
« Reply #3 on: 09:04:15 - 06/02/14 »
Quote
- an empty lines between my char actions and opponent ones

that'd be a lot of empty lines.

Quote
- my char/team left align, and opponents right align

dunno until i tried it, i kinda fear that it's be very messy. i'd rather propose something like
ally/enemy action highlighting or filtering.



Hugliston

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Re: Improve logs readibilty
« Reply #4 on: 09:48:02 - 06/02/14 »
Quote from:  Gabbin
I've gotten used to just typing in the mobs name and quickly checking its charms.
I should do the same, but I don't.


Quote
that'd be a lot of empty lines.

That would affect data transmission ?

Quote
- dunno until i tried it, i kinda fear that it's be very messy. i'd rather propose something like
ally/enemy action highlighting or filtering.
Well if your program allows you to do so, make the log look like a spreadsheet ?

Action highlighting would fit for me too (a bit like the RP mode of the campaign, with grayed useless lines) and filters would be a + (and totally in the Estiah philospohy of logs analysing) but filters....can we trust it ? ^^



Sheira

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Re: Improve logs readibilty
« Reply #5 on: 12:10:10 - 06/02/14 »
Let's check how it might actually look like.

Different alignment:


Space between turns:


To me, the change in alignment makes reading the log a lot easier. I also think there are several other things that could be improved. I think some entries do not actually need their own line. For example link bonus/chain could be displayed on the same line as the charm that was used. The log might also use a few more icons instead of text. You could replace "gains a [Ward] rune" with an image. And should several runes be gained, it could probably be compressed to a single line. Overtime effects are currently really ugly in the log and should probably change as well. Maybe indent them and give them some color as well? Another idea might be the ability to collapse turns into a single line (display only the charm that was used and hide everything else until the user chooses to view everything again).

Nipal

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Re: Improve logs readibilty
« Reply #6 on: 12:20:44 - 06/02/14 »
now i've seen the alignment, i actually hate it. it's way too sparse and hinder with reading flow.
space between lines isn't as bad as i initially thought.

i like very much the idea of expanding/collapsing log lines to cards, i'll have to change log data format
though.

i don't think we should replace runes by their icons; log is meant to be verbose, provide a full description
of what happened.

Hugliston

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Re: Improve logs readibilty
« Reply #7 on: 14:07:42 - 06/02/14 »
Quote
it's way too sparse and hinder with reading flow.

Well for me it's visually clearer, there's is a logic to read it (left to right and up to down)... so  for some people people that don't rely on visual aspect to "memorize" things, this  could be annoying... That would be ok for some people and annoy others, idea to be dropped then ? :)

Quote
space between lines isn't as bad as i initially thought.

The opposite there for me. ^^ That doesn't improve that much readability, with dozens of lines moreover...

Quote
i like very much the idea of expanding/collapsing log lines to cards, i'll have to change log data format
though.

for expanding/collapsing logs, why not... but keep an option to collapse all/only a line
« Last Edit: 14:21:24 - 06/02/14 by Hugliston »

Sheira

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Re: Improve logs readibilty
« Reply #8 on: 14:29:10 - 06/02/14 »
The left/right alignment does not have over the whole page, it could also just be different indents. It's hard to find one style that fits all. But in the end, there could be options and there is always the possibility for user scripts to change appearances. So maybe the collapsing lines might be enough to make the log a little more compact and readable and people that want more, can customize the log.

Nipal

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Re: Improve logs readibilty
« Reply #9 on: 14:44:53 - 06/02/14 »
i remember when i played wow, there were countless addons that tweaked log display.
the most popular ones seemed to shorten the logs to display only interesting information
(such as spell, damage).

dual display of shortened/verbose lines is the way to go i think. also i think it's possible to
indent lines with ally/enemy side, need to check this with lez.

Gabbin

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Re: Improve logs readibilty
« Reply #10 on: 15:51:19 - 06/02/14 »
I think the alignment approach gives a newcomer a familiar framework to read the through the log. It is easily comparable to a text message log. Put little bubbles around each side's turns and everyone will feel right at home.

I also like it better than the spaced approach because I rarely care what I played when looking through the logs. I want to see what fresh hell my opponent is dealing out, and having an us vs them layout in the log would let me quickly find their evil doings.  Or I could just type their name into the search (although that cuts out the lines showing the actual charm effects after it was played which is annoying).
Everythings easier in pseudocode!

Gabbin

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Re: Improve logs readibilty
« Reply #11 on: 15:52:37 - 06/02/14 »
Include a radio button or two to the right of the search box to allow for multiple log layouts?
Everythings easier in pseudocode!

Misha

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Re: Improve logs readibilty
« Reply #12 on: 19:57:39 - 06/02/14 »
I like spaces in between turns since it's not really easy to see when one turn ends and the next begins when skimming a log since there's multiple lines per turn and not even the same number of lines per turn.

Nipal

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Re: Improve logs readibilty
« Reply #13 on: 13:22:07 - 06/03/14 »
guess it's idea stealing time. if you can remember a game with great combat log display, try to find us some screenshot
so we can copy&paste.

another problem i have with side-aligned display is there's actually a third side: neutral (like field effects). should we
center-align them ?

Sheira

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Re: Improve logs readibilty
« Reply #14 on: 13:55:48 - 06/03/14 »
I can not think of any other game where you have a log after a fight without seeing the actual fight. If you are seeing the fight and can pause anytime and only see the current log, then none of these problems exist.

Estiah 1 only showed the current turn right in the fight view which made the log manageable. The problems with the log are mostly because you get this whole wall of text all at once and currently have no separation between turns or sides. Not sure if players would prefer an approach where you could see the log (current turn only) while watching the replay.

Neutral effects could indeed be center-aligned. I think the most important thing is linking all the entries from one turn in the log so I can instantly see where one turn ends and the next starts or if I want to jump ahead a few turns. If that is clear, everything else is bonus.