Author Topic: Coliseum gear  (Read 1741 times)

Sheira

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Coliseum gear
« on: 15:29:42 - 06/01/14 »
I kinda dislike that everyone starts out with just the starter deck(s) at coliseum. Shouldn't everyone get at least 5 boosters or something to have small variations in each deck? You could get some boosters from playing single player or just give 3 boosters when you first acquire a starter deck.

Another thing is that all starter deck charms are from the First Snow booster pack. The Winter Solstice boosters feature a whole different set of runes and you need a lot of boosters to make any deck.

It is also possible to give players a wider range of starter decks to choose from. But I think as it stands now, way too many matches with only slight variations of the starter decks (Magic or Weapon) are needed before being able to build any competent deck.

Qqchampion

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Re: Coliseum gear
« Reply #1 on: 20:32:33 - 06/01/14 »
+1 to this. Pvp is super duper grindy right now, even with two starter decks for "free" it's 4 or 5 fights to get one booster of 5 cards and tons more if you're trying to get singles. This is going to put a lot of people off of pvp if they have to go through dozens of fights and probably lose most of them before getting a deck that plays well. Granted, I understand that you don't want everyone to fully farm every single card right away, but it's really lame to have to play the same basic deck for ages and then have to hope packs give you the cards you want. This problem will only get worse as new card sets are introduced, and I can see it getting to the point where new players really can't catch up.

In addition to Sheira's suggestions, I would consider tying some boosters or some coliseum gold to pve. Maybe give one booster when the player reaches the level to participate in coli, and a few others available as sidequest rewards throughout the game. Definitely consider adding a few starter decks for any new booster sets that get introduced, maybe making them available by completing a challenge or something rather than being usable from the start. That way, players can at least try out the new sets without having to grind tons of cards.
[21:39] <Morthalius> I'm going to be farming crystalite sprouts till lil baby jesus is back in diapers as decrepit geriatric jesus :(

Nipal

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Re: Coliseum gear
« Reply #2 on: 09:27:22 - 06/02/14 »
completely agree with all you've said and it's the exact problem we are struggling with.
basically, we can't hand out too many cards at once at the beginning since pvp is unlocked at L10,
there are players completely new to estiah, we can't expect them to even know runes. however,
we need to hand out them out fast, like really fast so pvp matches don't feel grindy.

that's why we copy/pasted hearthstone's loot model, but it's not easy to apply to e2 since
we have way more runes and you can't play a deck based on a specific rune until you have
enough cards in the said rune.

we can give some boosters in pve, but it's not easy to balance. for example, if we give one booster per
level, you only need to make alts, storm through first levels, delete, then repeat. ofc we can make this
one-time reward per account, but some people hardly touch pve and we separated pvp from pve for
this exact reason.

imo, pvp sidequests are the way to go, but it's really not easy to implement. pvp is actually intended to
be a bit grindy so there'd be enough players in the matchmaking pool to create fair matches. and yet
it's very bad to feel grindy from the beginning.

anyway, we need more feedback so we know how to tweak, keep your input coming, thanks!




Sheira

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Re: Coliseum gear
« Reply #3 on: 10:00:49 - 06/02/14 »
Couldn't you make the single player rewards only count for the first character? And I agree it isn't a problem to be a bit grindy if you want to do everything. But it should be fairly easy to get 1 or 2 decent decks.

The real problem to overcome is that Estiah basically has 20 resources, 3 damage/defense types and lots of other stuff. Putting together a deck just with random boosters is near impossible. Maybe boosters should have a way smaller selection of possible charms that all work together at least decently. It would be no problem to put charms in several boosters. With the current method you should only buy boosters if you plan on getting all cards. Otherwise you will only buy single cards and this will take forever and will hinder gear diversity. Having a lot of different boosters would also allow you to have boosters that have only very basic cards for newer players that want to start with simpler decks. You could have single rune boosters, source boosters and much more. If the player has at least a little control over which card they get, they are more likely to buy boosters and might discover some new charms this way.

Having a few more cards to start with and actually wanting to buy boosters might be all coliseum needs because you would suddenly only pay 100g for several decent cards instead of 80-240g for a single one.

Nipal

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Re: Coliseum gear
« Reply #4 on: 12:11:50 - 06/02/14 »
we added unit card shops only because it'd be nearly impossible to have a full collection of cards if players
were to rely on booster's randomness alone. we'll have to stress in pvp tutorial that new players shouldn't
be buying card one by one, it's a complete waste of coins.

runes are already divided over extensions, so a booster of a specific extension should yield cards that are
mostly useful. perhaps we need to narrow it even more. we planned 4 extensions for release, and we think
we'll greatly reduce the cost of cards and boosters from First Snow. This way, after earning the three
starter decks, players may be able to diversify decks without too much grinding.

Gabbin

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Re: Coliseum gear
« Reply #5 on: 19:05:15 - 06/05/14 »
I would assume that, eventually, players will be matched by (at least) comparing rating and charm count?  That will decrease some of the problems with everyone starting with the same gear.  Right now, it seems really bad as people just starting pvp are very very likely to run up against someone whos spent 1k+ coins on charms and they just get plastered over and over.  That said, awarding 500 coins (not boosters) when you complete the first quest for your gear would be a good idea.  Or 500 coins as an intermediate quest between gear 1 and gear 2.  Something to let new players feel less stuck and like they have some control.

100 coins as part of the campaign chapter completion rewards, starting with chapter 4 (about level 20).  Doesn't matter if you use alts.  If you want to keep leveling alts, so be it.  As long as it is faster to make 100 coins in normal pvp (which it would be), alting for pvp bonuses won't be a problem.

An item added to virtually all non-campaign mobs loot tables with a small (2-5%) chance to drop: Coliseum Betting Slip - [Use] Collect winnings (rand 2-12 coins)

A small (5-8%) chance for a pvp fights to drop a random charm for both the winner and loser.

Everythings easier in pseudocode!

Sheira

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Re: Coliseum gear
« Reply #6 on: 19:09:30 - 06/05/14 »
It might also be a good idea to start new players with 2 fights against AI which will afterwards unlock their first gear instead of having to instantly jump against other enemies with an unknown gear.

Misha

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Re: Coliseum gear
« Reply #7 on: 06:56:41 - 06/06/14 »
Pretty much agree with everything Gabbin and Sheira said in the above two posts.  There's nothing wrong with PvE helping you progress your PvP, as long as it's not the most efficient way (though it shouldn't affect "ranking" obviously).  PvP already helps you progress in PvE due to lowering cooldowns, so a little something going the other way makes sense.

Nipal

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Re: Coliseum gear
« Reply #8 on: 11:27:48 - 06/06/14 »
it's planned to reward pve players with a pvp buff that increasing coin earning.
let's say, completing a dungeon give you one-hour of 20% coin incomes, something like that.

unlike blizzard with their zillions of players, we need players to stay in queue to
provide better matchmaking (yes, they are matched based on their rating).