Author Topic: Discussion on the new class system  (Read 2414 times)

Lezard

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Discussion on the new class system
« on: 11:48:21 - 02/25/14 »
The latest patch had a complete revamp of the job and class system.
We only implemented a draft version of it, to test and discuss it with you.

What's missing:
- There is currently just one condition to earn more job exp: play with the class runes. We plan to add several more
- There are no rewards except xp when we gain a rank in a class. We'll add several cards at each rank, and a character sprite at the last rank.

The ideas we currently have for class xp gains are:

All classes
- A single point at minimum for every won battle
- Extra points if we use several of the class specific runes in the same fight

Vindicator
- Use protect
- Play with a slow deck

Runewarden
- Win by exhaustion
- Use projection
- Use modifiers

Nightslayer
- Deal killing blow with a bane
- Play with a fast deck

Destroyer
- Win with multiple active auras
- Play area-of-effect charms

Berserker
- Play with no defense (armor/ward)
- Consume willpower

Soulreaper
- Win by exhaustion
- Win with several active summons
- Capture a soul



The main questions I have for you are:
- Do you understand how the system works? It is intuitive enough?
- Do you like this new system? Does it feel interesting enough?
- Do you have more ideas for specific conditions to award class xp?

Hugliston

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Re: Discussion on the new class system
« Reply #1 on: 14:00:47 - 02/25/14 »
I find this system quite simple and I like it : to force using your class rune to gain xp class is fine by me. More xp with using some class-related  strats is fine too as it forces the player to really understand the class specificities.


Maybe you could add xp bonus when you defeat a NPC that has opposed fight tactics, like winning against a guy stacking wp when you're a "soul eater" specialist.
« Last Edit: 14:02:31 - 02/25/14 by Hugliston »

Seniunas

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Re: Discussion on the new class system
« Reply #2 on: 17:16:36 - 02/25/14 »
new system looks interesting, and quite uneasy to advance (did few battles already). Also, i'm missing something similar to inquisitor in e1, spirit/banes guy

Dissident

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Re: Discussion on the new class system
« Reply #3 on: 04:07:42 - 02/26/14 »
- Do you understand how the system works? It is intuitive enough?
easy enough to understand when you stumble upon the Specialization page. I guess giving the players a notification once they hit the required level to choose a specialization would help make it intuitive.

- Do you like this new system? Does it feel interesting enough?
I have no strong feelings towards it, as for interesting I think the branching classes of E1 is more interesting but I can understand that this would be easier in balancing Class Charms.

- Do you have more ideas for specific conditions to award class xp?
* Extra points for defeating same or higher tier class in PVP.

Vindicator
* Extra points for blocking 50% of damage. Even more points for blocking all damage dealt!

Berserker
* Extra points for winning fights with sliver of health left...but that might overlap with a certain skill?

Lyana

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Re: Discussion on the new class system
« Reply #4 on: 09:37:11 - 04/28/14 »
Ok I know I'm a bit late but since it was implemented I always had a question in mind : why do we have to specialize everytime why is the cooldown so short?

I mean, in my mind, I create my character, I choose a class and hop! I'm the fiercest assassin the world has ever known. But why should I have to specialize?

Now I've noticed that I can actually specialize in any class I want, and I have mixed feelings about that.

One one hand, I like the idea of being able to change one's class. I like the progression system and feel it nice to be able to have rewards for your progression.

On the other hand, I fear it kills the role playing aspect because I fear that people will find it mandatory - or just will want - to have all the rewards and have the most complete character ever. And I just feel that this destroys the purpose of having to choose a class or a path for our toons and most of all their identity. This also kinda kills replayability.

Now I'm just at the beginning, I don't know about advanced levels, but is there a moment when our path becomes locked? I think that would be really great.

Also, this is just a detail, but would it be possible to display the current level of our specialization in our profile instead of the general path? This might sound stupid but I'd rather have Scout displayed to indicated that I'm trying to be a scout instead of Nightreaper. This allows for a greater sense of progression I believe. Also it's less confusing when at the end of the fight, you receive skills in Scout and not in Nightslayer


I just wanted to hear what you had in mind with the specializations.

Gabbin

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Re: Discussion on the new class system
« Reply #5 on: 22:22:15 - 06/11/14 »
Context for future reference: This is a little over 2 weeks into the open beta.

First, we need a tutorial to pop up at level 20 instructing players to specialize immediately and letting them know that they can re-specialize whenever they want and keep their charms and progress.

Now.. this is more on the classes themselves than the class system.  I think the system is fine.  At first I didn't like the idea of having access to all classes at all times, but now I think it both triggers the completionist in me and can offer interesting charm combinations.  I find myself once again gravitating to Soulreaper and Destroyer.  I don't know if its what I'm most familiar with or because they really are as strong as I think they are.  From a single class perspective, in order of strength (imo):

Soulreaper - Best class by far.  Summons seem to be great dps once you get them started.  By the time you get Shaman Rite, your worries are over.  Combine the summon damage with earths natural output vs unarmored opponents and wow.

Destroyer - Pairs nicely with Soulreaper, but ignoring that... the magic rune focus with AOE and the splash of magic drain makes this an excellent class.

Berserker - Slightly below the destroyer, but with a few more charms could be really nice.  Axe and Fist both show a lot of potential and could be a true move-over-to-your-enemy melee ranged class.  The tech escalation is amazing but the spears just kind of fizzle.  Definitely a contender for forward thinking players. 

Nightslayer - I really want swords to succeed.  I know there is a combination of S/TB/L that can work.  That said, I feel the main draw here is the access to more banes.  There is some control thrown in, and everything is fairly fast, but the escalation isn't nearly as nice as the above classes.  It'll take a little more work for a pure Nightslayer to be effective. 

Runewarden - I do not like the Runewarden.  Splash in Recruit for the healing ward charm, then stop.  It feels like there is too much going on here.  Defense, projection, spirit, rune production, and rune consumption.  I am interested in the class's ability to produce and consume runes.  I like that a lot, actually.  But I'm not sure there is enough focus here to pick a RW as a main or even support class.  Maybe when we see more projection charms, it'll be more of an interesting support choice.

Vindicator - I see no reason to ever level Vindicator.  Mace's benefit is its huge damage.  Diluting that with another damage type seems pointless, especially with weak holy.  Like the Runewarden, a lot of stuff going on here that don't always mix well in practice.  High melee, defense, healing, protect, projection.  I see the beauty of a Vindicator on paper, but in practice, with the way pve fights are setup, its just kinda meh.  It seems like it should be the ultimate survival class, but I don't see anything here that makes it stand out in a this-will-help-me-win kind of way.  I mean, how often do you need to protect in pve?  Most of the time, if an NPC is protecting they are protecting for a reason.  Vindicators: super good at herbalism?

So yeah, imo, Runewardens need a little more focus and Vindicators need something to help them stand out.  For RW, maybe drop the projection, keep the conditionals, and really focus on rune production/consumption?  For Vindicator, drop the protect, increase the projection, and allow large numbers (offense and defense)?  I dunno.  What does everyone else think of the classes?
Everythings easier in pseudocode!

Ayrvin

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Re: Discussion on the new class system
« Reply #6 on: 01:01:35 - 06/12/14 »
The main questions I have for you are:
- Do you understand how the system works? It is intuitive enough?
  I understand how the system works.  There could be a notificaton when you hit 20 that tells you that you can specialize (I may have clicked through it when clicking through the rewards from a dungeon?).  I only realized that I should pick a useful class because I got points for runewarden when I was looking at my battle rewards for the next battle, and I had played around with it and specialized myself at level 10.

- Do you like this new system? Does it feel interesting enough?
  I love the new system where I don't have to choose a class at the exclusion of the other classes, or replay the whole game in order to play with another class.

- Do you have more ideas for specific conditions to award class xp?
  Nope, sorry, I haven't delved into the game enough to know.

Nipal

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Re: Discussion on the new class system
« Reply #7 on: 09:40:14 - 06/12/14 »
hehe gabbin, if everyone feels like you do about the new system, i think it's fine for us.
(i'm gonna exaggerate a bit)

- Soulreaper : summons are hard(er) to play because of green runes, so we reward players
with skills and master rune management. we'll tone the damage down only if this class is "too op".

- Destroyer/Berserker : our basic cookie-cutter, close-your-eye-and-dps classes. mostly for
players who don't master the game yet and only think of raw damage output.

- Nightslayer : i share your feeling of lacking DOT cards, this class will do fine once more dungeons
(loots) are added.

- Runewarden : it's the "weird kid in the class" case. initially intended to be a magic tank then
gradually it becomes "let's throw everything weird in" trashbin. i don't think it's going to be popular
any time soon, but people like to try alternative tactics are going to love it.

- Vindicator : well, it's a paladin. everyone plays paladin in MMO.