Author Topic: New Player - Warden or Hierarch for T3??  (Read 6504 times)

Ennenn

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New Player - Warden or Hierarch for T3??
« on: 00:02:32 - 09/10/13 »
Ive been reading the forums and can't decide what i wanna be when i get T3 if i ever get there haha.

Wanted just to build tanky, so armor ward and maybe even will power stacking.

can anyone link me replays or give suggestions experiences with these two classes

thanks.

Slipstream

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Re: New Player - Warden or Hierarch for T3??
« Reply #1 on: 07:55:49 - 09/10/13 »
Any Tier 3 class would do tanking and willpower  stacking. Just farm specific charm for your set up and your good to go.
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Zenetar

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Re: New Player - Warden or Hierarch for T3??
« Reply #2 on: 08:10:18 - 09/10/13 »
Tanks are good only in PvE part of the game.
When it comes down to PvP, pure tanking deck is not competitive at all.

Both Warden and Hierarch represent 'defensive' approach to Estiah, but there are some big differences between them. For example, Wardens have Purge.

I would recommend you go Recruit->Cleric and once you are more familiar with Estiah mechanics and strategies you can choose your T3 class, be it Warden or Hierarch.

Ayleth

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Re: New Player - Warden or Hierarch for T3??
« Reply #3 on: 09:04:00 - 09/10/13 »
Every class is unique, what matters is the type of strategy you prefer. I want to be a slayer because I love unusual movesets as well as counter attack type charms. Wardens can use their defensive power to attack with ward projection as well as can purge their opponents. Hierarchs can heal themselves, stack up on defensive power and generally use indirect damage.

Ennenn

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Re: New Player - Warden or Hierarch for T3??
« Reply #4 on: 09:31:35 - 09/10/13 »
thanks for the help and replies i will look into it further.

Zenetar

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Seniunas

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Re: New Player - Warden or Hierarch for T3??
« Reply #6 on: 16:11:20 - 09/10/13 »
hm, nor warden, nor hierarch has good tanky class charms, paladin looks more like tank for me because of immunities. warden more like debuffer, hierarch - healer, but if i had choose between these 2, then warden, ice tomb is quite good charm. as for stacking armor/ward/wp - best way is auras, any class can do that, just some do it better than others

Sparky

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Re: New Player - Warden or Hierarch for T3??
« Reply #7 on: 01:28:14 - 09/11/13 »
hm, nor warden, nor hierarch has good tanky class charms, paladin looks more like tank for me because of immunities. warden more like debuffer, hierarch - healer, but if i had choose between these 2, then warden, ice tomb is quite good charm. as for stacking armor/ward/wp - best way is auras, any class can do that, just some do it better than others
In PvP, Wardens and Slayers make excellent tanks, Hierarchs as well but with less debuff/counters (though Sage Sparkling Web (for fools who didn't go Cleric) and Indomitable Spirit can help out with that now at high level, but high level pure tank is dead since Null Barbs became an auto-include in so many decks).
Immunities have been highly overrated when taken into consideration for charms balance, they prove not so efficient if at all in a PvP perspective.

In the end, it's all down to what you mean by "tanky". Note that in Estiah you won't focus on getting only charms of a specific rune as you'll need all kinds and a varied enough collection to get through the higher level dungeons. This is why I mostly assumed you implied using tank strategies from a PvP/group PvP perspective, in which case Hierarch is a good pick (especially if you like willpower/healing) while Warden and Slayer are also great at it, with a few subtle differences.
[15:57]   <Evangeline88>   nah, Slyguy is exceptional ... he can deal with everyone easily?

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Seniunas

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Re: New Player - Warden or Hierarch for T3??
« Reply #8 on: 05:01:53 - 09/11/13 »
hm, nor warden, nor hierarch has good tanky class charms, paladin looks more like tank for me because of immunities. warden more like debuffer, hierarch - healer, but if i had choose between these 2, then warden, ice tomb is quite good charm. as for stacking armor/ward/wp - best way is auras, any class can do that, just some do it better than others
In PvP, Wardens and Slayers make excellent tanks, Hierarchs as well but with less debuff/counters (though Sage Sparkling Web (for fools who didn't go Cleric) and Indomitable Spirit can help out with that now at high level, but high level pure tank is dead since Null Barbs became an auto-include in so many decks).
Immunities have been highly overrated when taken into consideration for charms balance, they prove not so efficient if at all in a PvP perspective.

In the end, it's all down to what you mean by "tanky". Note that in Estiah you won't focus on getting only charms of a specific rune as you'll need all kinds and a varied enough collection to get through the higher level dungeons. This is why I mostly assumed you implied using tank strategies from a PvP/group PvP perspective, in which case Hierarch is a good pick (especially if you like willpower/healing) while Warden and Slayer are also great at it, with a few subtle differences.

question was about stacking armor/ward and maybe wp (see 1st post in tread), nor warden, nor hierarch has good class charms for it.

Sparky

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Re: New Player - Warden or Hierarch for T3??
« Reply #9 on: 12:57:01 - 09/11/13 »
hm, nor warden, nor hierarch has good tanky class charms, paladin looks more like tank for me because of immunities. warden more like debuffer, hierarch - healer, but if i had choose between these 2, then warden, ice tomb is quite good charm. as for stacking armor/ward/wp - best way is auras, any class can do that, just some do it better than others
In PvP, Wardens and Slayers make excellent tanks, Hierarchs as well but with less debuff/counters (though Sage Sparkling Web (for fools who didn't go Cleric) and Indomitable Spirit can help out with that now at high level, but high level pure tank is dead since Null Barbs became an auto-include in so many decks).
Immunities have been highly overrated when taken into consideration for charms balance, they prove not so efficient if at all in a PvP perspective.

In the end, it's all down to what you mean by "tanky". Note that in Estiah you won't focus on getting only charms of a specific rune as you'll need all kinds and a varied enough collection to get through the higher level dungeons. This is why I mostly assumed you implied using tank strategies from a PvP/group PvP perspective, in which case Hierarch is a good pick (especially if you like willpower/healing) while Warden and Slayer are also great at it, with a few subtle differences.

question was about stacking armor/ward and maybe wp (see 1st post in tread), nor warden, nor hierarch has good class charms for it.
"stacking armor/ward and maybe wp" doesn't really mean anything out of context, you have to specify to what purpose you plan on doing that: PvP, guild fights, PvE...? All in all, this is something about anyone with the proper stats can do with non-class charms, which is why I was orienting the discussion on the topic of synergy and support classes offer with such strategies (tank/auras stacking), as class charms alone aren't enough anyway. The direct "cumul. defense" charms of the Paladin, for instance, are too weak to be efficient aside from PvE (where they can easily be replaced, anyway).

Edit:
question was about stacking armor/ward and maybe wp (see 1st post in tread), nor warden, nor hierarch has good class charms for it.
Warden:
Arctic Winds and Shattering Starfall not only match the "tanky" prospect, incidentally, but they're even usable in PvP/group PvP strategies pretty efficiently. Not to mention Modulation Crystal...
Hierarch:
Restoration, Benediction, Sanctified Light...
Meanwhile, plain direct cumulative armor doesn't lead you far in matters of being tanky, at T3 levels.
« Last Edit: 13:06:36 - 09/11/13 by Sparky »
[15:57]   <Evangeline88>   nah, Slyguy is exceptional ... he can deal with everyone easily?

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Ennenn

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Re: New Player - Warden or Hierarch for T3??
« Reply #10 on: 14:11:39 - 09/14/13 »
Thanks for the help everyone  :)

Yeah guess i wasnt too clear and had just started the game but the "tanky" was more aimed at group play and solo PVP, i wouldnt think that you could kill much in PVE being just support and tanky.  thought it may have been possible to build a defensive deck while covering all the bases.  I have since decided towards the warden path but still have a lot to learn. so aura stacking against non spirit decks is not effective? with the whole null barbs and what not?

Seniunas

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Re: New Player - Warden or Hierarch for T3??
« Reply #11 on: 15:27:33 - 09/14/13 »
Thanks for the help everyone  :)

Yeah guess i wasnt too clear and had just started the game but the "tanky" was more aimed at group play and solo PVP, i wouldnt think that you could kill much in PVE being just support and tanky.  thought it may have been possible to build a defensive deck while covering all the bases.  I have since decided towards the warden path but still have a lot to learn. so aura stacking against non spirit decks is not effective? with the whole null barbs and what not?

in pvp to clear a dungeon you need a lot of various strategies, sometimes just tank/support is best way. as for null barbs, maybe it comes often in 52+ fights, i'm just 51, in colli and normal PvP i saw it only in dedicated null barbs shortdecks, and if you against them, no matter how many auras you have, they give you enough to kill you with null barbs  :laugh: also i have to note, game is balanced more or less, so no strategy can beat everything, stacking armor is good against some strategies, but completely useless against others, so it's up to you what to choose, just keep in mind - you can't beat all in PvP with same strategy.

Ennenn

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Re: New Player - Warden or Hierarch for T3??
« Reply #12 on: 00:24:12 - 09/15/13 »
haha yeah i realise that.  But balance is good mostly it seems except for a few classes that are played a bit more then others.  but then that is PvP. Just need a bit of everything then and different decks for different situations for both PvE and PvP.

does anyone happen to have some projection warden replays i could watch? PvE or PvP

thanks :)

Slipstream

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Re: New Player - Warden or Hierarch for T3??
« Reply #13 on: 08:10:32 - 09/20/13 »
don't forget to collect charms on every dungeon you might used it when you are at a high lvl. Llv up "Cheat Death" Skill at a lower lvl than at a higher. Thats all.
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Quazee

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Re: New Player - Warden or Hierarch for T3??
« Reply #14 on: 05:56:40 - 09/29/13 »
To be quite frank, explaining the end-game perspective to a newbie is a somewhat daunting task. Unlike other games which have a (very) steep learning curve, Estiah is very dull/bland/unsophisticated at lower levels.

You need to understand three things :
1. Class choice isn't terribly relevant in Estiah. To put things into perspective, there are like ~7000 charms (corresponding to ~1400 sets) in this game; only ~500 of them are class-restricted. The direct consequence is that picking the "wrong" class won't make someone unable to play a given strategy at all, it will merely impact its effectiveness. Approaching the end game, you'll discover that anyone can play anything; the caveat being that some classes are better at certain things than other classes.
2. There is much more to (end-game) tanking than meets a newbie's eyes, the concept of tanking gets complex (in sharp contrast to "stack armor/ward/willpower") at higher levels. More on that a bit later.
3. In good games, an all-out offense is sometimes the best defense. Estiah's a good game, there are quite a few cases in which folks deliberately try to be as reckless as possible (typically in certain dungeon encounters or in high-level PvP).

Now a more comprehensive overview of the concept of tanking, as it unfolds at higher levels. Tanking implies at least one of the following :
  • Stacking defenses.
    • via armor/ward/willpower
    • via immunities
  • Counters.
    • countering positive damage modifiers (buffs) with negative modifiers (debuffs)
    • countering damage modifiers via specialized effects (normalize, purge, steal modifiers)
    • making EA-heavy decks more "slow" (maximum action reducers, purge)
    • countering certain indirect damage types (auras, banes) via specialized effects (purge, respectively cleanse)
    • reducing the impact of indirect damage types via specialized effects (aura/bane/summon shorteners/reducers)
  • Direct manipulation of HP.
    • via healing
    • via drains
    • via specialized effects (life gain)
  • Support.
    • "feeding" your teammates (multiplayer PvP, certain dungeon encounters) with buffs or EAs
    • using group-oriented counters or healing

Basically, as you'll progress through the game you'll shift from the (overly) simplistic "stack as much armor as possible" to "take care of this, and that, and that, and that". However, as it was already pointed out to you, Estiah is not a game where you'll be able to tank everything at once. It isn't anything like WoW, where healers were capable to tank damage-dealing classes/specs till the end of days.
« Last Edit: 05:58:27 - 09/29/13 by Quazee »