Author Topic: Unbound Fight 3  (Read 4701 times)

Worldsenvy

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Unbound Fight 3
« on: 23:41:27 - 07/28/13 »
Any Hints on this fight?? I have wasted tons of AP and am no where close to figuring it out.....

Powerslave

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Re: Unbound Fight 3
« Reply #1 on: 10:58:41 - 07/29/13 »
The common solution is a certain shortdeck, including four different charms (times 5), all of which (can) create combos with the charms of your allies.

Worldsenvy

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Re: Unbound Fight 3
« Reply #2 on: 17:03:21 - 07/29/13 »
Ah there we go.. the key is the "cleanse all" combo and -banes to all... was trying to use pray for absolution but that doesn't work... thanks!

Quazee

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Re: Unbound Fight 3
« Reply #3 on: 00:41:44 - 07/30/13 »
The other common solution is... yet another shortdeck, designed to tackle LitE.

Gabbin

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Re: Unbound Fight 3
« Reply #4 on: 18:10:40 - 07/30/13 »
freakin short decks
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Quazee

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Re: Unbound Fight 3
« Reply #5 on: 09:00:49 - 07/31/13 »
freakin short decks

To be fair, every single encounter in Unbound is easier to tackle with shortdecks. It's not people being lazy/cheesy, it's a design feature... IMO.

Gabbin

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Re: Unbound Fight 3
« Reply #6 on: 21:09:24 - 07/31/13 »
Sigh... no, it was definitely not designed that way.  Players are just too smart.
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Quazee

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Re: Unbound Fight 3
« Reply #7 on: 21:58:30 - 07/31/13 »
Sigh... no, it was definitely not designed that way.

Do share, it'd be really interesting to see your original paradigm. I can sort of imagine F1/F3 with long(er) decks, but what about the other two ?


(Probably safe to ignore the potential spoilers, as doing Unbound with full decks should qualify for this thread - again IMO.)

Gabbin

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Re: Unbound Fight 3
« Reply #8 on: 01:20:56 - 08/01/13 »
I don't really recall specifics at this point, and I dont have any of my old decks for comparison. The only thing I really remember is that Fast Freeze was entered into the system incorrectly, but I loved the effect so much that I asked that it be left mostly broken.  I do still have access to my original designs and the dev thread though.  Perhaps I'll go over them this weekend to get a sense of what I was looking for.  PM me a list of the popular shortdecks and I'll see how they match up against what we were testing with.
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Quazee

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Re: Unbound Fight 3
« Reply #9 on: 07:39:11 - 08/24/13 »
Uh, this thread went way off my radar. Sorry. I'll PM the decks later on this weekend.

Gabbin

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Re: Unbound Fight 3
« Reply #10 on: 04:08:13 - 08/25/13 »
Reading through the dev thread is a bit trying.  Too much done through in-game pms or in-the-moment on my side.  But heres some fun stuff.

Needless to say, spoilers past this post.


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Gabbin

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Re: Unbound Fight 3
« Reply #11 on: 04:29:47 - 08/25/13 »
Fight 1

Ha, I guess fight 1 WAS intended kinda as a shortdeck fight in the beginning.  In the very beginning, combo'ing out the curse wasn't an option.  You were meant to go hard and fast with shadow and fire or use Kyud's Analyzer to survive.
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So do you play it safe and use KA and chip away at it over the whole fight, or do you try and short deck and go for a quick kill.  At 51, it could really go either way.  Alternately, you could try and go melee.  You have to overcome the melee immunities and dizziness reduction, but it should be possible.
Stacking on your own auras and still dealing enough damage wasn't supposed to be viable.  However, then I:
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Fight 1 is almost done actually, think the base damage and penetration need toned down a smidge and Back and Forth could be slightly more forgiving.  I'm also probably going to ruin the whole fight and make it entirely too easy by giving Of the Wind a conditional consume.
This was when Turbulent Barrier was called Of the Wind.  I was going to allow the player to consume it if you knocked out the Sylph's armor, which is why the Sylph's armor is now 500 instead of its original 2500.  That probably would have been fine, but then I got cute with it:
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How would you feel about having Tranquility (card ID 463) combo with Of The Wind, thus consuming the curse?  Gray text and story text could be added to make note of the combo.  There are a couple cute things about this.  1) You receive Tranquility from the first air elemental you fight.  2) Every other charm Frigid Sylph plays combos (in a sense!)  3) Frigid Sylphs charm names are already very similar or allude to the original Air Elemental's.
So yeah, Tranquility probably ruined the difficulty of the fight at the last moment.  But!...

The real fun of this fight was the self-combo cards, which where actually a bug we stumbled upon when making Fear of the Dark.  I thought it was hilarious and decided to make a fight where the mob could self-combo.  There is actually a lot more potential for this 'bug'.  It could have been the set piece for an entire dungeon.  In this fight, it's used specifically to get around the if>then>else problem.  Problem being, you can't have an Else.  So if you want to do a check, and have two completely different outcomes you need two charms to do it (or, if the effects are very very simple, you could possibly assume one condition, then negate it after the If).
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Gabbin

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Re: Unbound Fight 3
« Reply #12 on: 05:02:34 - 08/25/13 »
Fight 2

Your fight 2 deck was basically right.
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Nazar will be tanking this fight, if you can coax him into it with Misguiding Flare.  Otherwise he’ll try DPSing.  You will also be responsible for cleansing the banes placed on him, using Pray for Absolution.  The hulk is protected from direct attacks, banes and even (to a limited extent) summons.  Your best bet for killing the Hulk will be to load him up with Attached Summons and Attached Curses (Cascade Effect would be particularly useful).
Back when Petr was name Nazar.   Me justifying increasing bane damage/effects when the fight was nearly done:
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If he is tanking, you should have 2-3 Pray for Absolutions in there to cleanse him, otherwise he shouldnt last long enough to let your summons last long enough.
If I recall, if you try to tank the fight it is (properly) a lot harder.  Prolly should have had an achievement for that, but I didnt want an achievement's description helping to guide building a gear.

The sad part about fight 2 was the Hulk's Reconstitute charm. It was originally a lot less specific on what would cause life loss and would actually consume itself and do extra healing if there were no summons...  but it never actually SAID the word summon on the charm, it all went off of damage dealt.  You had to figure out what would cause the effect to trigger and how damage was attributed.  Eventually we had to give in and I rewrote its current state:
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Interference still isn't working right and I'm not sure if it will ever actually work right when you take into account the order in which effects are processed.  I was trying to get the player to play attached summons without coming out and saying "hey, you should play attached summons" but ARGH.  Enough other things say "summons" now that it prolly doesn't matter.  Happily, thats the only thing holding this fight up.
« Last Edit: 06:41:20 - 08/25/13 by Gabbin »
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Gabbin

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Re: Unbound Fight 3
« Reply #13 on: 05:37:28 - 08/25/13 »
Fight 3

And the fight that started this... turns out to have essentially the same decks you sent me posted in the dev thread. I know I wanted to twist it and have the player perform a support role, but I didn't realize I went that far. So, uh, hm.
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The summoner debuffs the player group all with the crippling Wardens Demise.  Nazar will use Infusion of Light in his rotation, the player must use Blade of Betrayal to trigger Judgement and cleanse everyone (Foreshadows the player basically betraying the Wardens by later summoning the elementals the summoner wanted for himself and passing him essences in his cell.  I thought it was cute).

That's me being cute again.  To be fair, by the end of testing, you didn't really need BoB, but it would help an awful lot.
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It should be very very hard to do fight 3 without Judgement.  Originally, you absolutely had to have it as Warden's Demise lasted until end of fight, but I relented and shortened the duration.  I suppose we could change Gavrill's Ice Scabbard into Celestial Sword to give the impression that you might could sorta get through with just Strike and CoH to clear off WD.  As long as it would still be loads easier to just use Judgement (95% win vs, say, 30% win), I guess I'm ok with it.
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Anyway, again, I don't really want the fight winnable (past maybe 25-30%) without using judgement.  The possibility of using CoH and CStrike is really just there as a tease.
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okay, Fight 3 is done.  My CoH/Strike deck went 7-7 while my BoB gear is almost undefeated. 50% is a frustratingly high win rate, but I had to spend something like 500 AP tweaking it to get it there, so whatever.
It looks like I did have the player originally working a little harder, but relented near the end of testing specifically to allow a shorter deck! HA! Embarrassing!:
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Alyona and Gavrill: Go ahead and give them their fight 4 uber dps decks.   See tweaks to these decks in Fight 4 notes.
That said, I really did expect some targeting help and/or some anti-summon charms to go with the group support.
« Last Edit: 06:22:22 - 08/25/13 by Gabbin »
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Gabbin

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Re: Unbound Fight 3
« Reply #14 on: 06:15:31 - 08/25/13 »
Fight 4

Fight 4 was interesting as how you tanked changed as the fight was tested.  In the beginning, you wanted to tank.  Traditional role, heavy duty.  Slowly that morphed into the armor/wardless tanking as different effects were tweaked.  Was kind of neat.  And, of course, using epics was me being cute again.  Gavrill and Alyona were also using the same decks they were using in F3, which were originally much much weaker.  Then that was scrapped and they were given new dps-oriented gears for F4 which included the new charms Shining Heart and Fast Freeze.  The funny thing was, they now did way too much damage..
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Gavrill and Alyona now do enough damage that you can easily kill Aurora without playing an epic to trigger her.  Or doing anything at all, really.  Going to try to just up the armor/ward for now.  If that doesnt seem to work, going to have to create a second mob that will purge until an epic is played.
Of course adding 10,000 armor and ward didn't work out. So I went and messed with all of her charms.
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I'm making some changes to the charms and their structure to require the player to use a reasonable amount of epics.  Its also to give the player more a little more time to build up, mostly by turning all of the static damage into ever growing for-each-rune-played damage. Also adding a support mob to start purging the player again as the armor/ward solution didn't work out.
The fun that is Fast Freeze:
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I am confused about Fast Freeze.  Regardless of what its truth turns out to be, it is an inspired and inspiring charm the way it is written now.  Originally, it was just supposed to let Alyona get out auras quickly if she did not have any out, and if she did have some out, to deal some damage.  Now it is just a damage dealing charm, which is fine... but I'm confused about how its dealing damage.

I assumed that it was a 25% chance per aura to see if FF was consumed, and if so, it dealt damage... but it doesn't seem to actually be consuming.  Is that just an error and it is supposed to be consuming, or is it instead consuming whatever aura it checked the 25% against?

What I find so awesome about it is that it is an enhanced version of the small EA spells I wanted in TDS+C. You could easily make a small collection of charms that do nothing but EA and lay a to-be-consumed over time effect.  

...<after some explaining and more testing>...

I'm still confused over how Fast Freeze is working, but honestly I'm ok with it working the way it does, whether thats technically bugged or not.  Just becomes a matter of wording on the charm.

So you were never really intended to short deck F4 at any point.  Though with the dps boost given to A & G, I can see how it could be possible with a 40-50 charm deck.  So not really a 'short' deck, but smaller than normal.  Also, Hour of Light does work really well there.  Had no idea if it would get made though.  Using Infuriating Slap instead just makes me smile.
« Last Edit: 06:20:09 - 08/25/13 by Gabbin »
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