Author Topic: Bloody Deliverance  (Read 6390 times)

Quazee

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Bloody Deliverance
« on: 13:36:50 - 01/11/13 »
This poor dungeon hasn't got its own thread even 6mo after its implementation, let's roll a discussion thread at the very least. How do you feel about it ?

As for my own remarks :
  • BD scores major style points for being a healthy change, when compared to many of Merton's and Gabbin's babies. I'd say that the only mechanically complex encounter is F2 - and it's quite neat to "break the pattern" a bit. Simplicity has its own appeal.
  • Other bonus points for letting folks go wild with spirit-based approaches on F2 and F4, even if it means doin' them right.
  • Unlike notable other cases (KK, Unbound, and especially WWAMS), BD resembles FotD v3/SiS/CKM a lot. In other words, it'd be a stretch to call it RNG-driven. If you have the right charms and if you build the right decks, you'll end up investing less than 75AP for a full run, on average.
  • Fairly balanced with respect to class-specific "cheesing". Really, F4 is the only encounter to point at.
  • Achievement-wise, BD is mostly alright. [The Adventurer's Friend] stands out, though; it seems a bit too trivial.
  • Loot-wise, nothing to complain about. While I definitely like SoM's concept (and I'd love to like SoE, but it's simply too "weird" to use right now - if/when new charms are implemented, it'll probably be another story), RA/SS/PC are BD's "shinies". When it comes to the related crafts, HVR stands out for addressing a specific PvP niche.


Summa summarum, Misha's baby gets thumbs up from me. How about you ?

Qqchampion

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Re: Bloody Deliverance
« Reply #1 on: 17:45:10 - 01/11/13 »
I don't like the way the story turned Braeden from just some douche into a straight up villain, but as far as mechanics go the dungeon is really solid, if a little bit on the easy side. The charms were at least really diverse and not completely neutered, plus only one of them was completely broken at launch, so it was probably one of the best sets of charms released in a while.
[21:39] <Morthalius> I'm going to be farming crystalite sprouts till lil baby jesus is back in diapers as decrepit geriatric jesus :(

Quazee

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Re: Bloody Deliverance
« Reply #2 on: 12:30:51 - 01/12/13 »
  • Other bonus points for letting folks go wild with spirit-based approaches on F2 and F4, even if it means doin' them right.
  • (...) I'd love to like SoE, but it's simply too "weird" to use right now (...)

Just added F3 to that listing. All hail Misha.

Astrolabia

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Re: Bloody Deliverance
« Reply #3 on: 16:24:58 - 01/15/13 »
i was high when i wrote the initial draft

high on depression \ o/

so yeah if you dont like the story feel free to shit on me i guess

I don't like the way the story turned Braeden from just some douche into a straight up villain, but as far as mechanics go the dungeon is really solid, if a little bit on the easy side. The charms were at least really diverse and not completely neutered, plus only one of them was completely broken at launch, so it was probably one of the best sets of charms released in a while.

leech axe was not meant to be as weak as it is now/launch
the former kyoudou
the apprentice kuonhime

Worldsenvy

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Re: Bloody Deliverance
« Reply #4 on: 16:14:37 - 04/15/13 »
I don't know if I am misunderstanding something but I keep randomly getting hit in F1, with dark flare, even when i have positive magic damage modifiers!

http://www.estiah.com/character/combat/replay/id/43536141/owner/111951

Osmiridium

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Re: Bloody Deliverance
« Reply #5 on: 23:20:34 - 04/23/13 »
You actually did have negative magic modifiers. It didn't look like it because the AllInOne damage modifier display has a problem with tracking the steal modifier effect: the modifiers of the target stolen from, when positive, stay displayed as they were instead of being reduced to 0, which is what really happens.

The Diseased Flame Bomb's curse steals your positive magic modifiers every turn, sending you to 0 (or leaving negative modifiers). In that run, the -next magic banes triggered on a bunch of EAs at the end, leaving you at somewhere around -100 when Dark Flare came up again. (I'd advise no EAs in that fight!)

Worldsenvy

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Re: Bloody Deliverance
« Reply #6 on: 22:21:28 - 05/13/13 »
You actually did have negative magic modifiers. It didn't look like it because the AllInOne damage modifier display has a problem with tracking the steal modifier effect: the modifiers of the target stolen from, when positive, stay displayed as they were instead of being reduced to 0, which is what really happens.

The Diseased Flame Bomb's curse steals your positive magic modifiers every turn, sending you to 0 (or leaving negative modifiers). In that run, the -next magic banes triggered on a bunch of EAs at the end, leaving you at somewhere around -100 when Dark Flare came up again. (I'd advise no EAs in that fight!)

Ah I see it, so used to AllinOne I just assumed it was correct. Thanks!

Edit: Any Tips for fight 4? His damage gets way too high to outlast him and beat him the spirit route, though thats what the charms seem to suggest to do (by putting negetive ongoing damage modifiers on self). Can't normalize or purge him. Tried extending auras but he gets way too strong at the end.
« Last Edit: 22:54:36 - 05/13/13 by Worldsenvy »

Powerslave

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Re: Bloody Deliverance
« Reply #7 on: 09:28:09 - 05/14/13 »
Edit: Any Tips for fight 4? His damage gets way too high to outlast him and beat him the spirit route, though thats what the charms seem to suggest to do (by putting negetive ongoing damage modifiers on self). Can't normalize or purge him. Tried extending auras but he gets way too strong at the end.

Both methods are possible: you can beat him the spirit exhaustion way by putting negative ongoing modifiers on yourself (as you guessed), adding a few banes (to destroy his willpower and do some minor spirit damage) and a bunch of heavy bane extenders.

But you can beat him by normalizing, using a certain "storm" and some "bolts", and filling up the rest of your gear with armor/ward auras, aura extenders and some negative ongoing modifiers on yourself.

I think you will find replays for both methods in the forums (probably under the "you're doin' it wrong" thread ;-)

Cheers
« Last Edit: 13:53:35 - 05/14/13 by Powerslave »

Quazee

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Re: Bloody Deliverance
« Reply #8 on: 13:43:07 - 05/14/13 »
Edit: Any Tips for fight 4? His damage gets way too high to outlast him and beat him the spirit route, though thats what the charms seem to suggest to do (by putting negetive ongoing damage modifiers on self).

(...) you can beat him the spirit way by putting negative ongoing modifiers on yourself (as you guessed), adding a few banes (to destroy his willpower and do some minor spirit damage) and a bunch of heavy bane extenders.

You two are referencing the exhaustion way, a spirit turtle at best. The true spirit way boils down to 4+ spirit DPT.

Worldsenvy

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Re: Bloody Deliverance
« Reply #9 on: 00:49:30 - 06/16/13 »
You two are referencing the exhaustion way, a spirit turtle at best. The true spirit way boils down to 4+ spirit DPT.

Ive tried the exhaustion way and he deals way too much damage at the end as his cpb reaches ridiculous heights.. same for the "true spirit way"... I just don't see how it's possible without normalize...  and as a DK I dont have access to any of those charms as of now...

Ravenpaw

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Re: Bloody Deliverance
« Reply #10 on: 05:06:15 - 06/22/13 »
You two are referencing the exhaustion way, a spirit turtle at best. The true spirit way boils down to 4+ spirit DPT.

Ive tried the exhaustion way and he deals way too much damage at the end as his cpb reaches ridiculous heights.. same for the "true spirit way"... I just don't see how it's possible without normalize...  and as a DK I dont have access to any of those charms as of now...

Did you get Mana needle and Mana-empowered thrust? They can make a difference between life and death.

Seniunas

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Re: Bloody Deliverance
« Reply #11 on: 06:14:19 - 06/22/13 »
You two are referencing the exhaustion way, a spirit turtle at best. The true spirit way boils down to 4+ spirit DPT.

Ive tried the exhaustion way and he deals way too much damage at the end as his cpb reaches ridiculous heights.. same for the "true spirit way"... I just don't see how it's possible without normalize...  and as a DK I dont have access to any of those charms as of now...

Did you get Mana needle and Mana-empowered thrust? They can make a difference between life and death.

mana needle? no +next magic in F4, thrust? too much hp he have. Ofc it's possible damage way, but don't know is it possible for non Inqs. So, if you can explain how do it, i'll be very grateful, i wan't crafted gauntlets from there, they look so nice  :laugh:

Ravenpaw

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Re: Bloody Deliverance
« Reply #12 on: 14:31:13 - 06/22/13 »
You two are referencing the exhaustion way, a spirit turtle at best. The true spirit way boils down to 4+ spirit DPT.

Ive tried the exhaustion way and he deals way too much damage at the end as his cpb reaches ridiculous heights.. same for the "true spirit way"... I just don't see how it's possible without normalize...  and as a DK I dont have access to any of those charms as of now...

Did you get Mana needle and Mana-empowered thrust? They can make a difference between life and death.

mana needle? no +next magic in F4, thrust? too much hp he have. Ofc it's possible damage way, but don't know is it possible for non Inqs. So, if you can explain how do it, i'll be very grateful, i wan't crafted gauntlets from there, they look so nice  :laugh:

Sorry. It's Ivory needle. I've dropped this game for a while.
If you're gonna take F4 by exhausting the enemy without normalize, the ward and armor that come from Needle and Thrust are gonna come in handy.

Seniunas

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Re: Bloody Deliverance
« Reply #13 on: 15:20:25 - 06/22/13 »
You two are referencing the exhaustion way, a spirit turtle at best. The true spirit way boils down to 4+ spirit DPT.

Ive tried the exhaustion way and he deals way too much damage at the end as his cpb reaches ridiculous heights.. same for the "true spirit way"... I just don't see how it's possible without normalize...  and as a DK I dont have access to any of those charms as of now...

Did you get Mana needle and Mana-empowered thrust? They can make a difference between life and death.

mana needle? no +next magic in F4, thrust? too much hp he have. Ofc it's possible damage way, but don't know is it possible for non Inqs. So, if you can explain how do it, i'll be very grateful, i wan't crafted gauntlets from there, they look so nice  :laugh:

Sorry. It's Ivory needle. I've dropped this game for a while.
If you're gonna take F4 by exhausting the enemy without normalize, the ward and armor that come from Needle and Thrust are gonna come in handy.

oh, i got the point of these, but even with them without normalize it would really painfull to beat that fight, and sorry for my sarcasm earlier  :)

Seniunas

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Re: Bloody Deliverance
« Reply #14 on: 17:48:16 - 07/11/13 »
i admit, i was too sceptical, ivory needle does mirales there :)