Author Topic: Paladin-esque  (Read 8800 times)

Feeniks

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Paladin-esque
« on: 01:14:26 - 12/06/12 »
Okay. Everyone says that the Estiah-version of the Paladin stinks (I'm cleaning up the language). So, if I wanted to play an Estiah class that is like the Paladins of other games (or at least closely approximates), what would that class be?

Quazee

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Re: Paladin-esque
« Reply #1 on: 11:46:15 - 12/06/12 »
Everyone says that the Estiah-version of the Paladin stinks (...)

The following listings are based on the PvP ratings, current as of December 6th, under two constraints : level 50+ and a T3 class.

Top 90 (first five pages of the player listing, down to 5914 PvP rating) :
17Inquisitor
12Berserker
11Deathknight
11Pyromaniac
08Summoner
07Slayer
06Assassin
06Champion
05Warden
03Hierarch
03Warlord
01Paladin

Top 171 (first ten pages of the player listing, down to 4957 PvP rating) :
27Champion
25Inquisitor
21Berserker
18Pyromaniac
16Deathknight
12Slayer
12Summoner
11Assassin
10Warden
09Warlord
06Hierarch
04Paladin


FWIW*, the Paladins don't seem to be utterly unplayable. Not likely to dominate the PvP charts, fine; not having options (Ice Tomb, Curse of Flesh, Gravity Spear etc.) to trivialize certain PvE scenarios, also fine. They're still not FUBAR.
(* The listings are obviously biased in the favor of popularity, rather than the raw performance. Do keep in mind that quite a few entries are likely to be bogus; for instance, I'm currently maintaining several characters which do appear on these listings, but I'm only farming PvE stuff with them.)

Feeniks

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Re: Paladin-esque
« Reply #2 on: 13:25:38 - 12/06/12 »
Thanks Quazee!

I always seem to find information pertaining to my answer immediately after I physically ask the question. I'm currently leaning towards either the Slayer or the Warden, though I currently feel like the Warden may be my final answer.

For me, its a matter of playstyle and role-play. In WOW, I prefer the Protection Paladin. In PWI, I prefer the Fully-Defensive Seeker. In Estiah, I tried the Paladin because its called a 'Paladin', but it just doesn't feel right to me.

I still need to look at the Slayer more, but for now its looking like the Cleric-Warden path might be what I'm looking for.

Does anyone have any thoughts or information that they think could help me with my decision?

Uraxor

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Re: Paladin-esque
« Reply #3 on: 13:44:20 - 12/06/12 »
Wikipedia
(http://www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Main_Page)

look up all the class charms there. they are, after all, all that matters :)

Astrolabia

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Re: Paladin-esque
« Reply #4 on: 14:18:21 - 12/06/12 »
hi, i'm a Cleric-Warden.

it's quite a challenging route in my experience, but I believe it's well worth it because you will be able to learn very much about the intricacies of the game, as you must rely on some degree of creativity in order to do well in PvP and trivialize PvE due to the stat priorities. For a long time, I did not have POW as my high stat, in fact, it was my dump stat all the way up to Lv51, where I finally got all my stats over 700. Be prepared to think of how you would distribute your stats in the lower levels, as eventually the stat barrier completely disappears past 50/51 and you have much more freedom to be creative with your strategies.

Paladins have a focus on "Immunity" charm, that is, they are able to block an instance of damage of a certain type. However, Immunity is quite scarce in terms of availability, and I rarely see Immunity charms actually being used, except for charms that just happen to have Immunity as a side effect. For example, the epic charm "Weight of Thabit," is a decent Mace charm (that Paladins would be able to use quickly) with average Melee (62), great Ward, and an Immunity to Melee damage. Another good Mace with Immunity is "Maul of the Indefatigable," which is blocking 2 instances of Spirit damage.

I 100% agree with Quazee that Paladin class is NOT utterly unplayable, they just seem very bad and lackluster when compared to the other classes, all of which have some form of great PvE or PvP (or both) charm options. At least Paladins get Thundering Blow, which is quite a great charm for certain strategies.

Also I just realized that I have 500 more rating than the next lowest Warden in that top 90 list. That's a bit depressing. T_T
« Last Edit: 14:20:28 - 12/06/12 by Astrolabia »
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Quazee

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Re: Paladin-esque
« Reply #5 on: 16:29:55 - 12/06/12 »
Paladin class is NOT utterly unplayable, they just seem very bad and lackluster when compared to the other classes, all of which have some form of great PvE or PvP (or both) charm options. At least Paladins get Thundering Blow, which is quite a great charm for certain strategies.

Disclaimer : Sorry if the following may seem to be nitpicking or overly pedantic. Do keep in mind that my "main" is an Adventurer, which makes spotting strengths/weaknesses in other classes a rather trivial exercise.

The eternal Adventurer in me sees more than meets Astro's eyes :
1. Blinding Faith/Sacrifice of the Pure are quite neat in certain PvE scenarios. Nigh useless in PvP, though.
2. Paladin's Crest is a very good option in the 45-50 level bracket. It does become somewhat obsolete by late 50 (or 51+).
3. [if a former Guard] Imposing Command may seem godlike when it actually works. A niche option, yes, but a great one at that.
4. Thundering Blow is fucking fantastic, IMO. Shifting damage, a (minor, when compared to MotI) spirit immunity, it screws the decks spamming EAs, and it's one of the very few (player) charms which cleanse the enemy(/ies). Fucking fantastic.
5. Blinding Light is also good, but it gets obsolete when the auras themselves become obsolete (late 50, and especially at 51+) due to Null Barbs.


That much said, I still agree with Astro. The Paladins may seem to be a bunch of wusses at 51+, because TB alone isn't quite enough to "carry" them. If you're determined to become a Highlord, you'd better think of other T3 classes; for all other intents and purposes, the Paladins are just fine.

Astrolabia

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Re: Paladin-esque
« Reply #6 on: 16:58:15 - 12/06/12 »
My main problem with Imposing Command is that cumul protect strategies still aren't mature enough to have a decent success at winning. There have been one or two groups who played the strategy to amazing effect, but, there are still ways to circumvent cumulative protect. Weird targeting charms, Break Focus, and other charms, they could be used to disrupt such strategies with relative ease.

I'm also not trying to downplay at all Thundering Blow's value; again, I only based my evaluation on Lv50/51/52 play, which I believe is the most relevant bracket to look at as that's where most of the high-ranked players are within.

Quote
1. Blinding Faith/Sacrifice of the Pure are quite neat in certain PvE scenarios. Nigh useless in PvP, though.

2. Paladin's Crest is a very good option in the 45-50 level bracket. It does become somewhat obsolete by late 50 (or 51+).

I admit I wouldn't know a thing about this because I rarely encounter Paladins as is, and I don't play one.

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Nipal

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Re: Paladin-esque
« Reply #7 on: 17:22:43 - 12/06/12 »
(full-disclosure : i hate paladins)

Toben

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Re: Paladin-esque
« Reply #8 on: 03:52:19 - 12/07/12 »
Hey, with Kamil apparently idled out, all I had to do was log in to my (also-idled-out) Paladin to have the highest-rated Paladin in the game.  :laugh: 

Quazee's analysis is pretty much correct, however I will add that until late game, Paladins have a terrible stat distribution for doing much of anything. Maces are incredibly strong in the early levels (like, the teens), but then get terrible and stay terribly until about Maul of the Indefatigable and Stone Mocking Face roll along. Even Weight of Thabit, though certainly a strong charm, is a bit lackluster compared to the other runes' level 50 epics.

As far as class charms, to add to what Quazee said: Blinding Faith is a solid cleanse charm, useful in PvP as well as PvE; a lot of folks find themselves using Soul Healing even in later levels, and it's definitely nice to have Blinding Faith as an alternate option. Imposing Command only reaches something approaching viability in 2v2, and even there I'd only recommend it as a strategy to someone who doesn't care much about consistently winning and would rather enjoy laughing at the huge numbers it racks up when it does work. Paladin's Crest got a little shot of extra late-game viability as decent filler in Stone Mocking Face decks, but yeah, it was only a really star charm at right around level 45.

As a final sidenote, if you're looking at Paladin from the standpoint of other games' mechanics, you want to also look at Warlord or Warden. Warlords in particularly are the other sort of heavily-armored melee-damage leader-type class. I like my Paladin and (when I actually am around to play this game) enjoy playing him but I will admit they're mostly just better than Adventurers. Though in a post-Null-Barbs-world, I probably wouldn't go Hierarch in a hurry. And Death Knights are pretty meh as well...

Astrolabia

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Re: Paladin-esque
« Reply #9 on: 10:13:33 - 12/07/12 »
>Stone Mocking Face

yes this mace charm is awesomeeeeee
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Medefe

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Re: Paladin-esque
« Reply #10 on: 01:52:24 - 12/08/12 »
Weight of Thabit, though certainly a strong charm, is a bit lackluster compared to the other runes' level 50 epics.
Are you Sirius?

/Pyromancer signing out.

Astrolabia

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Re: Paladin-esque
« Reply #11 on: 01:59:52 - 12/08/12 »
Are you Sirius?

/Pyromancer signing out.

98 direct magic damage is pretty crazy in its own right; even Lesath has 83 melee and Alcyone is 80 shifting.

The self-attach bane may have some alternate applications as well, I want to figure those out once I have more of them.

Siriusly.
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Quazee

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Re: Paladin-esque
« Reply #12 on: 23:22:01 - 12/08/12 »
Weight of Thabit, though certainly a strong charm, is a bit lackluster compared to the other runes' level 50 epics.

Are you Sirius?

/Pyromancer signing out.

98 direct magic damage is pretty crazy in its own right; even Lesath has 83 melee and Alcyone is 80 shifting.

The self-attach bane may have some alternate applications as well, I want to figure those out once I have more of them.

Siriusly.

y so Sirius ?

Astro, EoS was ungodly (ab)used a year ago... until VoA was (finally) addressed. It's a thing of the past, of course, I'm merely refreshing your memory.

Astrolabia

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Re: Paladin-esque
« Reply #13 on: 01:18:47 - 12/09/12 »
Astro, EoS was ungodly (ab)used a year ago... until VoA was (finally) addressed. It's a thing of the past, of course, I'm merely refreshing your memory.

Not sure WHY you felt the need to say this though?

I knew this, that's why I'm trying to find new ways? :|

I'm one of the people who's willing to get beaten up a bit in PvP just to find non-popular ways to do 1v1. It's still unrealistic as hell to put EoS at the same level as WoT which IMO is probably on the weaker side of the epic spectrum.
« Last Edit: 01:21:53 - 12/09/12 by Astrolabia »
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Medefe

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Re: Paladin-esque
« Reply #14 on: 13:30:02 - 12/10/12 »
Yes, Sirius does 98 damage, and that's all it does. Marfik, Algol, Dubhe, Homan have higher damage potentials. Saiph, Lesath, Alcyone, and yes, Thabit disrupt the oppponent in various ways. Hamal is two double hits (melee and magic) with the second being AoE to top it off. That Shaula is great should not require discussion.

Thabit can completely stop a melee burst deck, it's a little less effective against melee cpb, but even there immunity is simply great. The ward provides some defense against magic. The damage is lackluster compared to the epics with a high potential, that's something I'll agree with you on, but the defensive properties more than make up for it, really. I'd consider it the "FotE of the forge charms", it does several things, and all of them pretty well.