Author Topic: Prismatic Cannon  (Read 7545 times)

Astrolabia

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Re: Prismatic Cannon
« Reply #15 on: 02:41:50 - 07/21/12 »
The 1 spirit on the aura becoming AoE is a pretty big start on balancing it, anyway. At first I thought it was just lowering the numbers and then I saw the AoE spirit :V
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Yogurt

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Re: Prismatic Cannon
« Reply #16 on: 02:57:45 - 07/21/12 »
Another solution is to make "trigger delayed effect"  a variable effect. e.g. Blood Drake Curse can be "trigger delayed banes[8]" which means it triggers delayed banes up to 8 turns. Prismatic Cannon can be:

(Target all allies)
-2 to target's auras
Trigger target's delayed auras[3]
Aura: 1 spirit to self, and 22 melee and magic to all enemies after 6 turns

As for the current nerfing...I think the "-2 to target's auras" punishment can be removed.
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Osmiridium

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Re: Prismatic Cannon
« Reply #17 on: 03:25:50 - 07/21/12 »
I reckon it's going to need a heftier nerf than the current one to prevent short decks with Prismatic Cannon, Skull Greaves and Boiling Blood from destroying everything.

I also don't think more self-spirit on the charm is a particularly good way to nerf it, as that just gives group spirit greater relative power, which it doesn't need.

If both effects are to remain on the charm, I think some nasty conditionals need to be in place. Here's a quick attempt:

(Target all allies)
    -2 to target's auras
    Aura: 1 spirit to all allies, and 1 melee and 1 magic to all enemies for each support rune used or discarded (up to 25) after 5 turns
    [If your HP is above 70%]
        Trigger target's delayed auras without consuming them

I don't know, maybe those aren't the most inspired, but I suspect it needs some sort of condition or to cut some of the "target all" effects to be reasonable.

Merton

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Re: Prismatic Cannon
« Reply #18 on: 04:33:59 - 07/21/12 »
Make the charm a mace.

Problem will solve itself somehow.   ;)

Astrolabia

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Re: Prismatic Cannon
« Reply #19 on: 05:28:39 - 07/21/12 »
I reckon it's going to need a heftier nerf than the current one to prevent short decks with Prismatic Cannon, Skull Greaves and Boiling Blood from destroying everything.

http://www.estiah.com/character/combat/replay/coliseum/239771/id/1678399 owned by self-spirit  :laugh:
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Sparky

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Re: Prismatic Cannon
« Reply #20 on: 05:33:42 - 07/21/12 »
I reckon it's going to need a heftier nerf than the current one to prevent short decks with Prismatic Cannon, Skull Greaves and Boiling Blood from destroying everything.

http://www.estiah.com/character/combat/replay/coliseum/239771/id/1678399 owned by self-spirit  :laugh:
The nerf worked! (kind of).  :laugh:
[15:57]   <Evangeline88>   nah, Slyguy is exceptional ... he can deal with everyone easily?

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Osmiridium

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Re: Prismatic Cannon
« Reply #21 on: 07:40:09 - 07/21/12 »
Huh...the other group had a similar experience too. I didn't expect that Circle of Hands wouldn't (or would only just barely) keep up with the aoe self-spirit.

Anyone play Guild Wars back in the day? I'm sort of reminded of Edge of Extinction groups. :D

Just going to reiterate that I'd prefer if something other than spirit was the counter to a type of deck more often, though. Easier said than done, of course.

Misha

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Re: Prismatic Cannon
« Reply #22 on: 08:04:19 - 07/21/12 »
Another solution is to make "trigger delayed effect"  a variable effect. e.g. Blood Drake Curse can be "trigger delayed banes[8]" which means it triggers delayed banes up to 8 turns. Prismatic Cannon can be:

(Target all allies)
-2 to target's auras
Trigger target's delayed auras[3]
Aura: 1 spirit to self, and 22 melee and magic to all enemies after 6 turns

As for the current nerfing...I think the "-2 to target's auras" punishment can be removed.

I really don't think that a nerf that requires implementing new mechanics is a good idea...

Astrolabia

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Re: Prismatic Cannon
« Reply #23 on: 08:04:40 - 07/21/12 »
Just going to reiterate that I'd prefer if something other than spirit was the counter to a type of deck more often, though. Easier said than done, of course.

Sadly, spirit is pretty much the easiest and quickest way to "balance" Prismatic Cannon, due to how it works and operates, it is very difficult to balance it otherwise without either nerfing it to the point where it becomes pointless to run in groups (Veil of Ash) or maintaining its reasonably overpowered status. In the case of Null Barbs, at least that was a matter of the numbers being too high and quick to scale up.
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Toben

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Re: Prismatic Cannon
« Reply #24 on: 15:41:37 - 07/21/12 »
Another way to gently nerf it, if it still looks pretty overpowered, would be to shorten the "window" on it - make the aura take effect after 2 turns (or even 1 turn!) so there's less time for it to be triggered by itself/boiling blood.

Astrolabia

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Re: Prismatic Cannon
« Reply #25 on: 11:41:26 - 07/26/12 »
After some time of working with Prismatic Cannon, I'm pretty confident that this nerf is good enough.

Goddamn that AoE self-spirit is annoying as shit.
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Sparky

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Re: Prismatic Cannon
« Reply #26 on: 12:00:23 - 07/26/12 »
After some time of working with Prismatic Cannon, I'm pretty confident that this nerf is good enough.

Goddamn that AoE self-spirit is annoying as shit.
Till we introduce a delayed aura giving cumul. willpower. ;)
[15:57]   <Evangeline88>   nah, Slyguy is exceptional ... he can deal with everyone easily?

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Astrolabia

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Re: Prismatic Cannon
« Reply #27 on: 16:10:23 - 07/26/12 »
Till we introduce a delayed aura giving cumul. willpower. ;)

And how long will that take?  ::)
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Gothmogged

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Re: Prismatic Cannon
« Reply #28 on: 17:53:13 - 07/26/12 »
After some time of working with Prismatic Cannon, I'm pretty confident that this nerf is good enough.

Goddamn that AoE self-spirit is annoying as shit.
Till we introduce a delayed aura giving cumul. willpower. ;)

At this point  the nerf seems to be more than good enough.  If anything, cannon teams are too likely to wipe themselves out to be reliably competitive in coliseum.   I'd call it an overnerf, except for Sparky's point.  Right now its drawback may be overkill, but future charms could easily redeem it.
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Astrolabia

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Re: Prismatic Cannon
« Reply #29 on: 11:19:19 - 07/27/12 »
2v2 Prismatic Cannon finals win

Yeah, it is pretty RNG-based at this point, there's just not enough tools to make the strategy work at this point. I certainly agree that there's room to make the strategy viable via future charms... Depends on when those future charms actually come out though.  :P
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