Author Topic: My Null Barbs are Called "Strategy"  (Read 12969 times)

Sparky

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Re: My Null Barbs are Called "Strategy"
« Reply #15 on: 05:51:39 - 10/18/11 »

*not gonna lie, I always hoped that the "epic" Curse of Flesh would be the original recipe version, was a little disappointed to see on the contest server it's just one extra turn duration

And higher piercing!
[15:57]   <Evangeline88>   nah, Slyguy is exceptional ... he can deal with everyone easily?

http://tinyurl.com/2b52xar

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Toben

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Re: My Null Barbs are Called "Strategy"
« Reply #16 on: 06:04:05 - 10/18/11 »
And higher piercing!

Oh man, how did I not notice that??? MUST HAVE IT

Arentios

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Re: My Null Barbs are Called "Strategy"
« Reply #17 on: 17:49:21 - 10/18/11 »
http://www.estiah.com/character/combat/replay/id/38265911/owner/60305 Energy Burst is indeed the perfect counter!

In all seriousness, I think the problem is much more the side of both the lack of interesting counters (Empathic decks are nice, but to be frank, they're utterly boring and uninteresting for a level 50+ deck) and a bit of collateral damage (lots of decks aren't aura focused but run some random auras).  I really like how at 50+ decks heavily diverge into fancier stuff than melee/magic/spirit.  Even aura has quite a few flavors.

I'd really like to see something akin to Energy Burst:
For each aura on self:
-1 to your Auras
-1 to Enemy's Auras
+...something else.  Damage, -Banes, who knows.
Lightning has a good theme of balancing things out like that.  Slayers shouldn't have all the fun  :P
« Last Edit: 17:51:26 - 10/18/11 by Arentios »

Zharg

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Re: My Null Barbs are Called "Strategy"
« Reply #18 on: 21:23:30 - 10/18/11 »
It does a fantastic job of annihilating the Kiai+Niflungar guild setup, which is a good thing since we were way too powerful. I do think that Null Barbs has way too broad of an effect though.

If at all possible, I would like to see the damage split up so that only a small amount is dealt the normal way as it is now and then add on a large chunk of damage with the condition If last turn was an extra action.

This way your normal non-Kiai aura decks are only mildly affected (rather than completely destroyed), since I really don't think they were ever that powerful to begin with.

Misha

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Re: My Null Barbs are Called "Strategy"
« Reply #19 on: 00:02:24 - 10/19/11 »

Curyos

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Re: My Null Barbs are Called "Strategy"
« Reply #20 on: 12:13:07 - 10/19/11 »
Just some thoughts:

I really only pay attention to 1v1 and 2v2, and in those battles the null barbs strategy isn't overpowered.  It's just another short deck strategy that is really good against anything except spirit. 

Listening to the discussion here about 3v3, it seems that the problem isn't really null barbs, it is cascade effect.  A powerful charm whose AOE aura/summon extension was supposed to be it's drawback.  It's a much harder fix to program, but I think that the right solution is to make two categories of auras (in the way that there are banes and curses).  Separate the categories so that Cascade effect only extends beneficial to the target auras and/or that null barbs only counts beneficial to the target auras for its damage.

What does everybody have against empathic charms?  They were reasonable charms even with the drawback of self aura reduction.  Now that self aura reduction is a benefit they are pretty nice charms.  There are even enough interesting banes and summons now, that the gear doesn't have to be boring.  (Of course mine is boring, but that's only because I'm unimaginative).




Curyos--Deathknight/Slong--Pyromaniac

Passionario

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Re: My Null Barbs are Called "Strategy"
« Reply #21 on: 13:03:55 - 10/19/11 »
It's a much harder fix to program, but I think that the right solution is to make two categories of auras (in the way that there are banes and curses).  Separate the categories so that Cascade effect only extends beneficial to the target auras and/or that null barbs only counts beneficial to the target auras for its damage.

I believe the 'second category of auras' is called "summons".
This world is a mess, and I just need to rule it.

Misha

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Re: My Null Barbs are Called "Strategy"
« Reply #22 on: 17:12:15 - 10/19/11 »
It's not just those decks that are the problem.

http://www.estiah.com/character/combat/replay/coliseum/201630/id/1411413

I drew ONE Null Barbs and it did over 900 damage.  That should not happen.  I'm all for having an aura counter, but it should not be possible to draw a single charm and instantly win.  Not to mention with a charm that is essentially an autoinclude in almost every damage strategy.

And Cascade Effect is fine.  An older charm should generally not be nerfed because a newer charm synergizes with it too well.  No, the newer charm is causing the problem.  Not to mention it's easier to just lower the damage on Null Barbs rather than program in new mechanics that change the base of the game.

Toben

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Re: My Null Barbs are Called "Strategy"
« Reply #23 on: 18:13:13 - 10/19/11 »
And Cascade Effect is fine.  An older charm should generally not be nerfed because a newer charm synergizes with it too well.  No, the newer charm is causing the problem.  Not to mention it's easier to just lower the damage on Null Barbs rather than program in new mechanics that change the base of the game.

What did I tell you, guys?

I don't think Power Corruption Cascade Effect should be changed as a fix for potential problems with Curse of Flesh Null BarbsPower Corruption Cascade Effect is an established part of the strategic landscape, with an important role in the decisions made when building spirit magic CPB decks; CoF Null Barbs is a new mechanic that's experiencing growing pains. 

Also, yeah, straightforward way of determining if a strategy is OP or not: does it shortdeck vs. spirit and consistently win?

Slalderma

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Re: My Null Barbs are Called "Strategy"
« Reply #24 on: 16:39:51 - 10/20/11 »
Close the thread, null barb team lost.  Charm is fine.

http://www.estiah.com/pvp/coliseum/tournament/id/201807
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berzerker / pyro / hierarch / deathknight / warden
Slyguy: Shortdeck is the answer to everything.

Passionario

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Re: My Null Barbs are Called "Strategy"
« Reply #25 on: 17:54:54 - 10/20/11 »
The best counter for an overpowered new strategy is an underpowered new strategy.

Null Barbs
    * 12 Shifting damage (25% P)
    * Aura: Attach to target: 14 Shifting damage (25% P) for each aura, during 4 turns. Consume effect and heal 24 for each aura if stunned.
« Last Edit: 17:59:15 - 10/20/11 by Passionario »
This world is a mess, and I just need to rule it.

Talima

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Re: My Null Barbs are Called "Strategy"
« Reply #26 on: 04:24:39 - 10/21/11 »
Close the thread, null barb team lost.  Charm is fine.

http://www.estiah.com/pvp/coliseum/tournament/id/201807

Keep debating, Null Barb still overpowered.

http://wl.attrib.org/estiah/colishuffle/201110/
Talima uses [Ice Spikes]
Astroblade takes 430 magic damage (98 warded, 2 pierced)
Astroblade takes 528 magic damage
Astroblade takes 528 magic damage

Jabari

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Re: My Null Barbs are Called "Strategy"
« Reply #27 on: 05:51:02 - 10/21/11 »
Dumb question:

Is Null Barbs really intended to do double damage against things like Pride of Shaula?  I play one Pride, and it's my only aura up, and the Barbs hits me for 28 (where I would have expected 14 - Pride only has 1 Aura "keyword" on it which has 2 effects, not 2 separate auras...)

Zharg

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Re: My Null Barbs are Called "Strategy"
« Reply #28 on: 05:58:22 - 10/21/11 »
Dumb question:

Is Null Barbs really intended to do double damage against things like Pride of Shaula?  I play one Pride, and it's my only aura up, and the Barbs hits me for 28 (where I would have expected 14 - Pride only has 1 Aura "keyword" on it which has 2 effects, not 2 separate auras...)

Null Barbs itself is an aura, so you have 2 auras.

Slalderma

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Re: My Null Barbs are Called "Strategy"
« Reply #29 on: 15:40:00 - 10/21/11 »
Close the thread, null barb team lost.  Charm is fine.

http://www.estiah.com/pvp/coliseum/tournament/id/201807

Keep debating, Null Barb still overpowered.

http://wl.attrib.org/estiah/colishuffle/201110/

But team 2 has a 44% rating!!!
slalderma / slickal / rebelscum / sukelywalker / badmotivator
berzerker / pyro / hierarch / deathknight / warden
Slyguy: Shortdeck is the answer to everything.