Author Topic: Game impressions  (Read 11917 times)

Misha

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Re: Game impressions
« Reply #30 on: 02:24:41 - 08/24/11 »
Slal: For the record, I don't disagree with your suggestion (at the moment).  Just saying that the drawback isn't against spirit, that's all.

Slalderma

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Re: Game impressions
« Reply #31 on: 02:31:24 - 08/24/11 »
Slal: For the record, I don't disagree with your suggestion (at the moment).  Just saying that the drawback isn't against spirit, that's all.

Yeah :)  I just restated to clarify what the suggestion might actually accomplish :)
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Lezard

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Re: Game impressions
« Reply #32 on: 09:14:53 - 08/24/11 »
When I say I want source runes to cycle every action no matter what, I mean JUST cycle.  you'd only get the rune if you took no action.  otherwise it would just shift what was next on deck.

I do like this idea. I think it's worth trying out.

Sheira

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Re: Game impressions
« Reply #33 on: 09:38:27 - 08/24/11 »
It does sound nice, but the question is if it makes the fight system too complex, you would also have to check your source charms to decide when to play a charm, and not only the rune pool to see if you can play it. It would make linking a lot easier, by playing a charm every 4 actions, you would effectively never have to draw your fourth rune in a 4 source setup until you want to.

So, my feelings are mixed here, it might make certain setups easier (especially longer source ones), but will it make even the basic "playing a card" too complex? We'll see when we try it out.

Merton

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Re: Game impressions
« Reply #34 on: 10:15:23 - 08/24/11 »
I figured checking your source charms was kind of intended.  But yeah..we'll test it...see how it goes.

Sheira

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Re: Game impressions
« Reply #35 on: 10:58:25 - 08/24/11 »
Currently you only have to check your source charms and think about them when trying to link, which is meant for advanced play style. You can completely ignore it and still play your charms, you will always get the same runes no matter at which source cycle you play. With this change checking your source charms would become a requirement to play your charms because you will only get a rune if you are not playing a charm at that moment.

Nipal

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Re: Game impressions
« Reply #36 on: 11:12:44 - 08/24/11 »
the idea is quite good. sheira, i don't think average players are going to keep an eye on source cards anyway.
most of them will simply click on whatever card lit up. but the change will allow more complexity, so better for
advanced players.

Srdja

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Re: Game impressions
« Reply #37 on: 11:32:30 - 08/24/11 »
I quite like Merton's idea and I don't think it will add that much complexity. It's a great addition.

But I also think we should be very careful not to make the battle system too complex. If we do, we might get in the situation where a fight is an absolute nightmare for the average player and a cakewalk for the advanced one, and that's not fun for anyone. The current amount of complexity seems just fine to me.

Merton

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Re: Game impressions
« Reply #38 on: 15:39:52 - 08/24/11 »
I just keep going back to the all the forum posts and online blurbs I've seen that criticize Estiah 1 for being "too complex and difficult for a webgame".  I thought those people were idiots then.  And I'll think those people are idiots now when they say the same thing about E2.  Even if I wind up SUCKING at E2 battle, nothing I hate more than watering down a game for the simpletons (*cough*Magic*cough).

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Merton

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Re: Game impressions
« Reply #39 on: 15:43:33 - 08/24/11 »
That said....if Estiah 1 is "too complex", Estiah 2 looks to be a game for Supernerds.  It IS a lot to digest coming in to it as we have.  But I think most of us have grasped it pretty quickly.

Being GOOD at it....another story.  I'm not yet sure just how bad the learning curve is going to be in the story mode.  I do definitely think some steps will have to be taken to help the player understand what's going on on the battlefield (particularly what his opponent is doing).  But other than that, "randomly clicking cards" is a tactile enough gameplay feel that most people will get a grasp of things at their own pace.

Kinda like how we learned 7 Wonders on BSW.

Srdja

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Re: Game impressions
« Reply #40 on: 15:50:13 - 08/24/11 »
I think those problems can be solved by Story mode slowly introducing you to the game and the battle system. Estiah 1 is a good example of "easy to learn, hard to master". On one end of the spectrum, you had antiviper owning a lvl50 quest at 44 and on the other you had whiners having difficulty beating a lvl44 dungeon at 50. Estiah 2 looks to be about the same complexity at the moment.

Imagine if you were given a lvl50 character in Estiah 1 with no prior knowledge of the game. That's what we got in E2 now.

Larcent

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Re: Game impressions
« Reply #41 on: 16:06:40 - 08/24/11 »
Getting thrown into the full complexity does make it a bit hard for me to evaluate what is too complex (other than some of the charm descriptions) so far.

Last night I started writing up a post that I felt that the game's system of choosing "first available" runes to complete any charm costs that don't have a symbol makes it hard to conserve specific runes to prepare to play other charms. But I'm not sure if that is a problem .... or just another strategy issue I need to learn.

Slalderma

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Re: Game impressions
« Reply #42 on: 16:16:33 - 08/24/11 »
I think it's another strategy issue but one that doesn't have enough "player flexibility" around.  Which is what mine and Merton's suggestions are geared towards.  Let's see if we can try Merton's out for a while and figure out the new system.  Then I'd like to try mine out.  I like the idea of breaking being another resource for the player other than something to do to kill time while waiting for a source or a better draw.
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Sheira

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Re: Game impressions
« Reply #43 on: 17:27:56 - 08/25/11 »
Okay, so I played around with the recent changes with the battle system:

Lower delay sources make the game feel more interesting and dynamic, but I have to say, 6 might be a little too low, but it is definitely better than before. Now about the cycling sources. I have to say I don't like it at all. Before playing a charm I now always have to check which rune it will skip in my source cycle. I find it very counter-intuitive to have to wait with playing a charm just so that I can even get all my source charms to play. If I do not pay close attention, I might not get certain runes at all. Before playing a charm I always have to think about which rune I can live without and then wait and play the charm at that turn. With the old system you would always get your runes, only when you wanted to go for linking, you had to think about the exact right moment to play a charm. So all in all: I think it is okay if I have to think about and wait to play a charm in order to get a link bonus later, but having to do that with every charm just so I can even get my runes...

Larcent

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Re: Game impressions
« Reply #44 on: 17:34:01 - 08/25/11 »
Okay, so I played around with the recent changes with the battle system:

Lower delay sources make the game feel more interesting and dynamic, but I have to say, 6 might be a little too low, but it is definitely better than before. Now about the cycling sources. I have to say I don't like it at all. Before playing a charm I now always have to check which rune it will skip in my source cycle. I find it very counter-intuitive to have to wait with playing a charm just so that I can even get all my source charms to play. If I do not pay close attention, I might not get certain runes at all. Before playing a charm I always have to think about which rune I can live without and then wait and play the charm at that turn. With the old system you would always get your runes, only when you wanted to go for linking, you had to think about the exact right moment to play a charm. So all in all: I think it is okay if I have to think about and wait to play a charm in order to get a link bonus later, but having to do that with every charm just so I can even get my runes...

I have to agree here. I only had three source runes in my gear but I kept cycling past one of them playing my charms and it was very frustrating. I am not even able to watch the fight. I feel like a healer in a WOW raid.

I want to say make the ability to cycle through source charms as an action, but it is so complicated already.

Edit: What if breaking a charm caused the source charms to cycle? Think about it the timing with that. If you're breaking a charm to get a rune, it's probably likely because you need THAT rune and not the next source rune anyway.
« Last Edit: 17:43:30 - 08/25/11 by Larcent »