AllInOne - Greasemonkey script (version: 0.5.6)

[Schutzengel]

Ah, fair enough. However, for those who want spoilers, is there anything that would actually prevent listing the data - as in, is it indeed possible to query it? Or would it all have to be hardcoded into the script?

Wikiii.

[Corveroth]

Oh, good. Because that place is so convenient to search. Of course, maybe I'm just spoiled coming from WoW... want to buy EstiahHead.

I mean, I want to level my Spears right now. There's no way I can search for "(Rune = Spear) and (Req Level <= 13) and (Req Power <= 63) and (Req Intellect <= 56) and (Req Constitution <= 18) and (Req Dexterity <= 13)" so that I can easily find the strongest charms available to me. Instead, I'd have to go to the Wiki, then to the Spear page, and then sort and resort the table - assuming that that skill even HAS a sortable table, instead of just a hyperlinked list that doesn't show the stat requirements. And, the table on the Spear page only shows charms above level 40, so I guess I'm going to have to check each possible hyperlinked page individually (eight pages; thank god I don't have a higher level).

With a Wowhead style site for Estiah, it would be a simple matter of typing five values into a filter form, and I get a list of everything I can use.

[Schutzengel]

Oh!

You can just see the Spear page and the level of the charms.
Simple.

[Corveroth]

Right. The level. Just the level. And maybe the Skill requirements. Not the attributes, unless whoever's been building that page saw fit to tabulate them. And, what if I have a more general question: Given my level and stats, what are the highest magic damage charms I can use? Physical? Highest penetrating damage of either type? Strongest +Magic?

The Wiki is incredibly ill-suited for answering those questions.

EDIT: To clarify, I'm not hating on the Wiki - it has some great information. And some shortcomings, but those reflect a lack of knowledge within the community (hellooo, pet battling). My complaint is that the wiki form clashes with the information I'm looking for. I want a charm database, searchable, filterable, complete. That, almost by definition, requires that all of the charms be compiled into a table. Wikis can be forced to do that, but it isn't their natural form. Wikis are great when you have several topics that each require significant description, with little overlap between the forms of the descriptions, but with natural links existing between those topics. A charm database is anything but: No description is necessary, most of the information can be shoehorned into a single form, and no linkages exist.

[Blacksol]

To reply to your request for spoilers option on charms in dungeons. Isn't it just as easy to go to the wiki page for the dungeon (if you have the relevant script then click the [Wiki] button on the City page to take you straight to it) and that will tell you which charms drop from which fights.

To reply to your off topic point: if you want to level a battle skill then do it on low rated characters in PvP or in the arena.  If you only have poor charms of that rune type then pick an arena mob you can win by exhausting and load up with whatever charms you like.  I do not see why you need to get the most powerful charm of that rune type that you can currently use to level the skill.

[Corveroth]

Re: Arena leveling. Fine, fair point. I am new at this game, as the stats I listed above might hint.

Re: Dungeon listings on the Wiki. Maybe this is my screwy perspective here, but when is it ever your goal to just play Pokemon with the charms? Is there a point at which you just "wanna catch 'em all"? If not, finding charm info from the dungeon listings is doing it backwards. Which makes more sense: checking each dungeon for useful charms, or finding a list of useful charms and then figuring out where to get them? That question might sound strange, because right now, there is no way to get a list of useful charms apparently out of thin air. That's where a searchable database would be useful.

Hell, it would be useful just to have charm tooltips on the links in the Wiki.

[Sparky]

Meh, what's this, kids nowadays are spoiled... [old man's voice on] back in my time we had to do all the scouting job by ourselves and we didn't complain
/end old man's voice

[Corveroth]

And here in my time we've found a better way than graph paper maps of Zebes and following rumors of using Strength to push the truck near the boat...

Really though, I wasn't so much looking for an argument. I just want to know if there's a solid technical reason that you couldn't just query a charms database from the server and rig a website for searching a local copy of that.

In an absolute worst-case scenario, there's always the option of writing a GM script that'll bundle up your charms and archive into some convenient text format, and asking folks to run the script and upload their data somewhere - a la the Wowhead Client+Looter. But that's slower and potentially less accurate than something like "for i=1,5000 do data=GetCharmFromServer(i); if (data) then ConcatOntoTextDump(data); end end"

[Schutzengel]

[...]

That question might sound strange, because right now, there is no way to get a list of useful charms apparently out of thin air. That's where a searchable database would be useful.

Hell, it would be useful just to have charm tooltips on the links in the Wiki.

There is

Want to know what kind of charm you can use depending on your stats? You just need to know this.

[Corveroth]

There is

Want to know what kind of charm you can use depending on your stats? You just need to know this.

Please clarify one thing. Are you simply trying to argue that I should make do with the currently available resources? If that is your aim, please save yourself the effort, as I will not accept it. If it comes down to manually inputting charms from the wiki into a homemade database only accessible to myself, I will do that. I would rather find a way to build that and share it with the community, but I refuse to be denied convenience simply because "we've got these tools and this is how we've always done it".

All I want here is the insight of someone familiar with the existing Greasemonkey scripts and Estiah's JSON crap.



If I'm coming off as belligerent, I apologize, but it's rather irritating to ask a question and receive responses that both avoid my question entirely and propose a solution I had already rejected.

[Schutzengel]

Please clarify one thing. Are you simply trying to argue that I should make do with the currently available resources? If that is your aim, please save yourself the effort, as I will not accept it. If it comes down to manually inputting charms from the wiki into a homemade database only accessible to myself, I will do that. I would rather find a way to build that and share it with the community, but I refuse to be denied convenience simply because "we've got these tools and this is how we've always done it".

All I want here is the insight of someone familiar with the existing Greasemonkey scripts and Estiah's JSON crap.

1st you know your level;
2nd you know that you can't use the charms with higher level requirement;
3d you know your stats;
4th you know what kind of rune you can run based on your stats;
5th you know your runes so you know what's the best melee/magic you can use;
6th you know the adress of the wiki so you go and search by rune;
7th you know you are in the correct page and check the list that is by default sorted by level;
8th back to step 1 and 2, you know what charms are near for you to use;
9th check stat requirement clicking on it.

Or you can simply check this kind of template: http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Template:Frostinfo , http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Template:Axeinfo
And continue editing it.

[Corveroth]

Which is all excellent! Except...

1) The wiki is human edited, and thus prone to transcription errors and missing data. A database built directly from charm data from the Estiah servers and/or player's charm/archive pages would have perfect accuracy.
2) Those pages, while quite nice, list only the requirements. They do nothing at all to list the EFFECTS of the charms involved. To construct, for example, a gear containing the most powerful magic damage charms available to me, I would have to check six pages (one for each Vita and Kata), from each of those follow links for everything I can possibly use, and then rank them all by output. Given a database, that entire process, those dozens of pages, are totally obsolete, replaced by entering my stats and clicking once to sort by output. To list, for another example, all of the charms that give extra actions, where do I go on the wiki? Must I visit something like this and check every damned page individually?

You are advocating a method of finding charms which will, indeed, work, but it is a slow step-by-step process imposed by the ineffective, paginated nature of the wiki. I am proposing that all navigation-level divisions (splitting charms into separate webpages by rune) be abolished in favor of dynamic filtering.

[Powerpet]

I just want to know if there's a solid technical reason that you couldn't just query a charms database from the server and rig a website for searching a local copy of that.

As far as I know, no, there isn't an official and public charm database, and there probably won't be (the devs want people to explore some things by themselves as part of the game). If you want to generate one, you need to scrape either the wiki or your own collection, but beware that charms change occasionally. While it would be nice to have one, the wiki takes most of the pain away.

Note that there is a script to filter within your own collection, so the big unmet need is searching for charms you don't have but can use. These generally won't be dungeon charms, since it's highly recommended that you collect most dungeon charms. So they're craftable charms, and especially in the first half of the game, you'll always be very close to the place relevant charms can be crafted and as such are listed in.
Next, you might also notice that the requirements of charms are very predictable. So it is possible to infer from your stats what charms you can use, given their runes and level. I'm not aware of anyone having done this.
Finally, there aren't all that many charms to begin with, especially prior to level 40, so what you really want isn't a way to find charms you can use, but something to help you track your progress towards being able to use them.

[Corveroth]

In one post, you've provided the overwhelming bulk on the constructive information I've gotten here. Thank you.

I don't expect an official database, but via GM-script charm scraping, there's no reason a public one can't exist. That charms can change is a minor issue, but a database would be no more susceptible to such issues than the wiki - worst case scenario, manual edits are possible. That so many "important" charms are craftable is excellent news, because in the absence of the capacity to pull charm info directly from the server, almost anyone could scrape their info.

Again, thank you. Hopefully, I can start on this project sometime within the next week or so.

[Sheira]

I never thought about reading the data directly from Estiah because this would need several characters. There exists a searchable DB of all charms parsed from the wiki from around 6 months ago (somewhere on my harddrive with no frontend, but the DB has all the information in easily readable xml database style). I might update it if I find the time (Shouldn't be more than some minor adjustments to the parser).
But I can only say: If you want something, you might have to do it yourself instead of just asking someone else to do it. If anyone is interested in writing a frontend to search this xml file (web-based or not), let me know and maybe we can work on something. I certainly don't have the time to do this all on my own.

So: If you are interested on working on any project for Estiah, let me know and we might find something. I know of several stuff that would be nice to have, but it needs players to contribute. I would also appreciate help with the AllInOne script, scripting-wise and in writing a tutorial. My time is sparse at the moment, so there won't be much new stuff if noone helps.

And to answer some questions if stuff is doable: Everything you could do manually, can be done by a script.