Author Topic: Attributes, charms and class relationships  (Read 56925 times)

Jamstalldhet

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Attributes, charms and class relationships
« on: 20:24:16 - 02/04/09 »
I bring to the community a drawing I just did. It is how I understand the relationships between attributes, charms and classes until now (don't expect perfection, I'm just a lvl6 5-days-of-playing beginner !!).



You can see the 4 attributes with their game colors (int, dex, con, pow).

Charms are in relation with 2 attributes, but one is a bit more important than the other. Melee charms and classes are pink-red and magic charms and classes are pale-blue.

You can see that every relationship between two attributes has its melee and magic type of charm, and lead to a tier 3 class specialization.

On tier 1 (at lvl 20), you choose one attribute. So everything in relation with this attribute is related to you : your good at using these charms and you can go to any of the related class.
On tier 2 (at lvl 30), you specialize on melee or magic. It means you prefer these types of charms and that you can no longer specialize to the other type of class on tier 3.
On tier 3 (at lvl 40), you choose another attribute to specialize. It can even become your main attribute. This choice leads to one particular tier 3 class.

Exemple (my carreer plan !):
I'm an adventurer. But I would very like to become a slayer ! Because they are so cool with their shifting attacks ! So, I can see that the slayer is a magic user, because she is blue (you didn't think all slayers were guys, don't you ;) ).

Being on the dex-int line, she prefers lightning and twinblades. And being a magic-user class, she'll prefer lightning. There are two magic users that can become a slayer : the one on the dex side (shaman) and the one on the int side (sage). Even if int is the dominant attribute of the slayer, I can chose the dex/scout/shaman path, start with dex as main attribute and keep in mind that I want to develop int and become a slayer... Guess what, this is what I'm going to do.

And then how do I become a shaman ? Take a look at the green sphere, which is the the color of dex, there are the shaman with the rogue and the scout. The rogue is my melee specialized sister : we both specialize from the scout.

Being working mainly on the int-dex line, it will probably be more difficult for me to use the weapons and spells on the pow-con line, they are kinds of opposites since they share no attribute in common. You can see that fire is opposite to frost, shadow is opposite to holy, therefore lightning must be opposite to earth, and twinblades to axe !

Ok, I don't want to be able to use only twinblades and lightning, and I know that the weapons and spells in relation to the others attributes require to build up these attributes as well. And I might not be able to be good at everything, because compared to specialized players of the same level (comparable sum of the 4 attributes), I will be bad at everything ! So the trade-off I'm ready to do is to favour one of pow and con over the other, but to keep dex and int higher.

Guess which one of con and pow I'll favour ? It's con of course ! I'll tell you why. It's because I have values, like respect, friendship and solidarity. I am personnally engaged against exploitation of women by men, of non-white by white, of non-hetero by hetero, of poor by rich...

You'll tell me : "what the hell is any of these ideas have got to do with the attributes in Estiah !?! And you want to be a 'slayer' anyway !!  >:(" Ok, I assume I'm playing a war game, but there is some place for solidarity in teamworking (is this convincing anyone ?? :-\). But what is more important is the set of skills you need to become assassin, death knight and inquisitor : they need to be cruel and remorseless !! That is real evil  >:(. You can go somewhere fighting for your rights or fighting for a cause, but you'll go nowhere close to respect and solidarity acting evil !

So I don't want to develop much the dex-pow line with its two evil caracters, I'll prefer the way of the paladin   :). And now, with con as my third best attribute, I guess I'll be quite good with the holy and frost magic, and the mace and spear weapons.

Edit :
Ok, 9 days have past since I first posted. I'm now lvl 12, so I've learned a little more and I want to go back on the last part, about my third best attribute. I said
Quote
I guess I'll be quite good with the holy and frost magic, and the mace and spear weapons.
Experience showed me it is not true. In fact, I'm good with frost magic, I can use lower level holy magic, but I'm not good at using spears and maces.  :(

So, what do we learn from this  :o ? We have to pay close attention to the strong attribute of the type of charm !  :laugh: As you can see by looking at the picture, spears and maces are closer to con than to the other attributes, which means that they need higher con than int or dex to enable their use in battle.

For exemple, lets look at the lvl 12 attack charms we can craft with Soul Fragments, excluding those using pow. By the way, you get Soul fragments in Player vs Player (PvP) battles, and trade them in a safe city, where PvP is not allowed  ;). Have a look on the wiki (http://estiah.aswt.net/index.php?title=Fragment_Trader) for the complete list  ::) ! :

dex-int : twinblades & lightning
this charm...requires...
Brawler's Daggersdex 43, int 31
Brawler's Lightning Scrollint 43, dex 31
dex-con : spear & frost
this charm...requires...
Brawler's Lancecon 41, dex 33
Brawler's Ice Scrolldex 45, con 30
int-con : mace & holy
this charm...requires...
Brawler's Hammercon 43, int 31
Brawler's Holy Scrollint 38, con 36

And now, lets use a bit of maths  :'(. You get to lvl 12 with 125 total points. To use all these charms, you need dex 45, int 43 and con 43. Sum = 131. 131 > 125, so you can't use them all right away, it's impossible  :P.

What you can do : before you reach the next level, you can get 19 more attributes points, so you can use them all before lvl 13  8).

But... you will get the chance to develop skills, which give you attribute points when you master them. You will probably get some pow points this way. And for the first levels, you don't have a lot of charms to choose from, so you might want to get some more pow to be able to use all types of charms. In my case, I got 15 pow at lvl 12, so from the 125, I have only 110 in dex, int and con : dex 40, int 40, con 30...

Which means I can't use any of these charms right away  ??? ! I'm very close to twinblades, lightning and frost, a little less close to holy, and not much close to mace and spear. My mace and spear stronger charms will always be a couple lvl lower than my stronger twinblades and lightning.

There are different strategies for building attributes. But as you can see, you can't be the best in everything !!  :laugh:

Edit :
Tobliz adds an interesting point of view. It seems your caracter can grow so strong that, in the end, you can use the best charms in a charm category not being your specialty.
Quote
It should also be noted that once you get high enough, you can start using endgame charms of other types.  I include Blade of Betrayal, one of the highest level sword charms in the game, in my deck and I'm a con/dex character.
Tobliz (2009/04/05)
« Last Edit: 23:05:55 - 05/23/11 by Lezard »
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Popeye

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Re: Attributes, charms and class relationships
« Reply #1 on: 20:52:21 - 02/04/09 »
Let me be the first to say how very cool this is.

Ugluk

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Re: Attributes, charms and class relationships
« Reply #2 on: 20:53:58 - 02/04/09 »
Holy Crap!!!  This is really cool and extremely awesome!  :o

1) That is ridiculously accurate.
2) You have way too much time on your hands.
3)
Exemple (my carreer plan !):
I'm an adventurer. But I would very like to become a slayer ! Because they are so cool with their shifting attacks ! So, I can see that the slayer is a magic user, because she is blue (you didn't think all slayers were guys, don't you ;) ).
One of my alts is a slayer wannabe that went Sage and I hate every second of being sage.  Definitely go Shaman!
4) Wow you have way too much time on your hands  :laugh:

Lez and Nip better start baking A LOT of brownies for this one.  Especially from a noob.
« Last Edit: 20:55:33 - 02/04/09 by Ugluk »

Wolfsoul

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Re: Attributes, charms and class relationships
« Reply #3 on: 21:12:33 - 02/04/09 »
Soooo much WIN... tears are rolling from my eyes *sniff*



YGBSM
[20:31]   <Schutz|Work>   Lez trolls much better than wolfz! :p
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Jackb4u3r

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Re: Attributes, charms and class relationships
« Reply #4 on: 23:19:23 - 02/04/09 »
This is really amazing. Great job.

This has to be a sticky and should be read by anyone who comes to the game, no matter if they have just begun. It's an amazing way to explain how the stat work and which weapons and classes are opposite.
"It's the disturbance we share between each other."

Azharh

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Re: Attributes, charms and class relationships
« Reply #5 on: 23:45:13 - 02/04/09 »
But what is more important is the set of skills you need to become assassin, death knight and inquisitor : they need to be cruel and remorseless !! That is real evil  >:(.

"Faisons le Mal, mais faisons le bien !"  8)

Fenrir

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Re: Attributes, charms and class relationships
« Reply #6 on: 23:48:05 - 02/04/09 »
Absolutely wonderful, I would have never have been able to do this in my spare time.  :-X
[18:26] <manoresAFK> fenrir completes achievement: [Nay can question my incosistent SnT hits!]

Lezard

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Re: Attributes, charms and class relationships
« Reply #7 on: 11:47:58 - 02/05/09 »
A very good guide, well written and very accurate.

It deserves a sticky and a craft of brownies indeed :)

Retrospect

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Re: Attributes, charms and class relationships
« Reply #8 on: 04:10:22 - 02/07/09 »
Great guide, wished it was here when I first started :-[

Jamstalldhet

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Re: Attributes, charms and class relationships
« Reply #9 on: 19:46:22 - 02/14/09 »
Thanks everybody. And thanks to those who wrote on the forum and in the wiki !!

I just added some more information to help understand the stronger attribute of a charm and added precisions to something I said, with an exemple with real charms.

--

Quote
Wow you have way too much time on your hands   :laugh:
If you learn to use Inkscape (http://www.inkscape.org/, free software !!), you can do pretty things quite rapidly !!

--

Quote
"Faisons le Mal, mais faisons le bien !"    8)
It's funny, although I disagree...

I would rather say : "Faisons le bien, mais faisons le libre !"  ;)
« Last Edit: 19:50:51 - 02/14/09 by Jamstalldhet »
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Azharh

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Re: Attributes, charms and class relationships
« Reply #10 on: 20:50:18 - 02/14/09 »
"La route est longue, mais la voie est libre"  ;)

Shroud

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Re: Attributes, charms and class relationships
« Reply #11 on: 12:47:59 - 02/19/09 »
Is it just me, or is the map/guide/diagram missing...?
Sneaking Around...

Ugluk

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Re: Attributes, charms and class relationships
« Reply #12 on: 15:49:06 - 02/19/09 »
Is it just me, or is the map/guide/diagram missing...?

It's you.  Sorry man.

Jamstalldhet

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Re: Attributes, charms and class relationships
« Reply #13 on: 05:30:01 - 02/20/09 »
Is it just me, or is the map/guide/diagram missing...?
If for any reasons you can't see the picture, you can go directly to the source on the wiki :
http://estiah.aswt.net/images/f/f9/Estiah_attributes_charms_classes_by_Jamstalldhet.png.
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Darthblood

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Re: Attributes, charms and class relationships
« Reply #14 on: 23:17:57 - 02/22/09 »
if i want to be mercenary->dk, does this mean i'm focusing on power as priority and dex as second?