Author Topic: [Cathedral of Illumination] Holy Sh*t!  (Read 111304 times)

Ender

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Re: [Cathedral of Illumination] Holy Sh*t!
« Reply #15 on: 15:04:59 - 02/28/09 »
It's greatly restrictive, imho. All those Soul Orb decks need a high degree of specialization to be effective.

Btw, I see most hierarch charms as a source of WP with *extra* effects. In each battle I pick, of those, the one(s) that adapt better my opponent. When pwning pyros or magic users, Worship. When playing attack decks, Blessed Light. Why do you want more than 20 Hierarch charms in one deck at the same time?  ???

Even if you're running both Salvation and Mind Radiance, that's only 50 WP consumption. 5 Restorations give 30, and 5 Blessed Lights (assuming you're going CPB, otherwise I have no explanation for Mind Radiances) give you those 20 still needed. Glorious Resolve (+42), Cerulean Rod (+15) give you the extra WP while helping your strategy goal. Even Illumination can be used, if you know what you're doing. I always thought that class charms were the way to strengthen your deck's strategy and make it different and better in a specific aspect of the game. I don't know if devs policies on this subject have changed, but I think this was the intention.


I must admit I have been running a deck similar to what you said (defensive spirit deck, etc) for a while. But since Pyric Charges appearance I have 0 spirit. Pyric Charge, Prismatic Charge, Moondrop Water, Embroidered Robe, Restoration, plus Appeasing Balm and Infusion of Light (only 2 atm, will have the full set soon) are a great defensive deck core (having a Pyric Charge active during 15 turns makes me extremely happy, and I still lack 3 Infusion of Light...). Add some heavy shifting or cumulative armor and ward (Nerman's Defender, Ruler's Helm, Ukko's Indifference) + some of the increase buffs that presumably are we going to receive in the future, and you have a unique, pretty interesting, hierarch-taylored defensive deck that will exasperate and exhaust most opponents. Any similarities to a DK, Summoner or Warlord's strategy is pure, unintentional coincidence.

Rakhir

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Re: [Cathedral of Illumination] Holy Sh*t!
« Reply #16 on: 16:57:43 - 02/28/09 »

Even if you're running both Salvation and Mind Radiance, that's only 50 WP consumption. 5 Restorations give 30, and 5 Blessed Lights (assuming you're going CPB, otherwise I have no explanation for Mind Radiances) give you those 20 still needed. Glorious Resolve (+42), Cerulean Rod (+15) give you the extra WP while helping your strategy goal. Even Illumination can be used, if you know what you're doing.


If I would build a deck with Salvation/Mind Radiance/Restoration and Blessed light, I would prefer to use the new charm instead of glorious resolve, yes I will be forced to add atleast 10 more holy charms but I now might also add Obstination which would be a lot more reliable than Illumination, but this is all very theoretical aslong as we dont know if this new charm will be a holy charm, if it wont I would agree with you that it is a bit too restrictive (although it still might be viable to use).



Ender

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Re: [Cathedral of Illumination] Holy Sh*t!
« Reply #17 on: 17:33:01 - 02/28/09 »
Obstination is not Holy. Obstination would dilute the new charm's power. You would need to add at least ¿5? other non-Holy charms (in order to use the melee Obstination buff, otherwise it would only be a unworthy +61 to next magic). This non-Holy charms would dilute even more the new charm's power. Do you see now real implications of the holy requeriment :)? Good for a thematic deck, unsustainable as class charm.

Let me add a pair of quotes...

Dagan in the Assassins thread
Quote
TimeB,

Persecution is useful if your entire gear setup is centered around Twinblades; if so, it becomes a staple. However, as the endgame progresses, I find myself using less Twinblades and more of a combination of different types of charms that synergize well with my strategy, and the usefulness of Persecution dies.



Nipal about Soul Pulsating Orb (rune-based cards)
Quote
these rune-based cards are proved to be very very unpopular that's why we refrain from adding too many of them or
we'll get one thread of crying per card.

i've been testing these cards myself, my full axe deck with battle rage (+18 next melee per axe rune) is not even close
to be decent. i won like twice out of 60 pvp fights. they're simply not reliable enough to be attractive. we need to rethink
a bit about them.

(Well, I know I'm doing that "thread of crying" and I'm sorry  :laugh:. If I was willing to build an all-holy deck I suppose this charm would be attractive, but I don't like it being the new class charm.)

Ender

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Re: [Cathedral of Illumination] Holy Sh*t!
« Reply #18 on: 20:56:51 - 03/03/09 »
I love you guys. Circle of Life is simply awesome.  :)

P.D: And I'm sorry if I've been tedious with my new charm "crusade"... :-\
« Last Edit: 20:59:36 - 03/03/09 by Ender »

Slalderma

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Re: [Cathedral of Illumination] Holy Sh*t!
« Reply #19 on: 23:16:33 - 03/03/09 »
I love you guys. Circle of Life is simply awesome.  :)

P.D: And I'm sorry if I've been tedious with my new charm "crusade"... :-\

Pretty much me too.  *THAT* is a charm a Heirarch can fall in love with.
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Bactrian

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Re: [Cathedral of Illumination] Holy Sh*t!
« Reply #20 on: 00:37:07 - 03/04/09 »
What's the charm what's the charm? lol
some call it beermatics, but i call it science of GODZ! - wolfsoul

Rakhir

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Re: [Cathedral of Illumination] Holy Sh*t!
« Reply #21 on: 17:31:38 - 03/04/09 »
I love you guys. Circle of Life is simply awesome.  :)

P.D: And I'm sorry if I've been tedious with my new charm "crusade"... :-\


I also have yet to see the new charm... your and Slaldermas statements made my expectations quite high :)

also please dont feel sorry for speaking your mind in a nice and polite matter, atleast I didnt take anything you said personal and I wish that more Hierarchs would join similar discussions in the future

Magus

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Re: [Cathedral of Illumination] Holy Sh*t!
« Reply #22 on: 17:50:28 - 03/04/09 »
going to add in the new charm to the main topic?

Ender

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Re: [Cathedral of Illumination] Holy Sh*t!
« Reply #23 on: 18:01:53 - 03/04/09 »
THIS.IS.SPOILER!!! IMAGE

THIS. IS. SPOILER!!! POST
With this new charm hierarch definitely becomes one of the hardest and more complex classes to play. As we hadn't enough with the WP system, now we can care about the whole aspect of the strategy that buffs represent. Challenging as hell. Funny as hell  :).

« Last Edit: 18:12:03 - 03/04/09 by Ender »

Rakhir

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Re: [Cathedral of Illumination] Holy Sh*t!
« Reply #24 on: 15:27:08 - 03/06/09 »
I am not sure how many good and useful (ongoing?) buffs I can use, but it really might be a little less restrictive than the 'each time you play a holy rune' mechanic. Also it seems to be a lot better in group battles. You can now also gain a lot more than 6x1WP, 6x the heal and magic damage modifier and you gain them all at once!

Still the # of buffs thing confuses me a bit...if I play 5 hyphused charms in a row will they count as 5 buffs or is it just five times the same buff, so only 1 buff...? or what about 1x release karma + 1x night cloak? = 2 buffs? or just 1 buff (because both are the same category, 'ongoing melee buff'). What about buffs that have the tech rune? I play blue dragon bone+blue dragon bone and then circle of life in the first round of battle (will this count as 2 buffs or 0? or 1?) ?

 ???
 

Slalderma

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Re: [Cathedral of Illumination] Holy Sh*t!
« Reply #25 on: 15:29:51 - 03/06/09 »
I am not sure how many good and useful (ongoing?) buffs I can use, but it really might be a little less restrictive than the 'each time you play a holy rune' mechanic. Also it seems to be a lot better in group battles. You can now also gain a lot more than 6x1WP, 6x the heal and magic damage modifier and you gain them all at once!

Still the # of buffs thing confuses me a bit...if I play 5 hyphused charms in a row will they count as 5 buffs or is it just five times the same buff, so only 1 buff...? or what about 1x release karma + 1x night cloak? = 2 buffs? or just 1 buff (because both are the same category, 'ongoing melee buff'). What about buffs that have the tech rune? I play blue dragon bone+blue dragon bone and then circle of life in the first round of battle (will this count as 2 buffs or 0? or 1?) ?

 ???
 

None of the things you mention are buffs.  Buffs are effects in the form of "do x over y turns" like all the Novice charms, Benediction, Restoration, Perseverence, Glorious Resolve, Mana Surge and the like.
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Bactrian

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Re: [Cathedral of Illumination] Holy Sh*t!
« Reply #26 on: 15:39:26 - 03/06/09 »
Well, night cloak etc. are "buffs" in the sense they "buff you up" (*flex flex*), but here it means buffs in the sense of "auras" or over time, not ongoing, effects - to quote Lez

I've noticed that there are some misunderstandings with the effect of some charms dealing with "buffs" or "debuffs", mostly because effects and runes share the same name.
*snip*
1) Positive effects, can be purged by opponent, do not trigger on EA, trigger during stuns => Aura

Basically it means buffs = over time positive purgable effects = renamed as auras (or appropriate icon) in the next patch.

@Ender - thanks! *drool drool* can't wait!
some call it beermatics, but i call it science of GODZ! - wolfsoul

Rakhir

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Re: [Cathedral of Illumination] Holy Sh*t!
« Reply #27 on: 19:13:51 - 03/06/09 »
alright thanks for the clarification, the charm makes a lot more sense now  :laugh:
that charm would obviously be extremely overpowered if it worked with ongoing damage boosts

Ender

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Re: [Cathedral of Illumination] Holy Sh*t!
« Reply #28 on: 20:00:58 - 03/06/09 »
I'm working on this deck, it has a lot of potential. Probably it won't be enough to defeat all those crazy dmg-dealers, but at least its a different, original and unique fighting style.

My intention is to build a summon-like deck, with a ridiculous amount of buffs over-time and heals. It's difficult, coz most summon's duration is 10 turns, while buffs are 6-8. That makes it difficult to have lots of buffs at the same time (at least for me, because I only have Appeasing Balm and Infusion of Light as duration increasers). I still need some charms to build my ideal deck (Dragon Aegis, mainly, but also more Circles of Life and Crystal Stoneskin), and when I have all those I'll tell you. At least today I've beaten Nypal with this hybrid deck. :P

Just for the record, I've been doing some skirmishes to test Circle of Life efectiveness. In a deck where there are 30/59 buffs and 10 duration increasers when my only Circle of Life comes to play I usually have 4 buffs on me. My best shot was a 7-buff, that was really nice.  :)

P.D: Echo Shield is listed as a buff, even it can't be increased. Is this intended??

Bactrian

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Re: [Cathedral of Illumination] Holy Sh*t!
« Reply #29 on: 08:02:58 - 03/09/09 »
Um. It sort of been bothering me... since i decided to go heirarch, there's been about 5 new charms added which use the "consume willpower" mechanic, one of which seem to be designed for heirarchs. At first I was abit disapointed that my previously unique (future) class mechanic was being given to axes but I could see the synergy with beserkers (rage slasher) and melee (royal decree), and some other classes didn't have any unique mechanics to begin with anyway. Even so just these two cards meant melee had as many willpower using cards as heirarchs. And now there's also lull slice and aura of darkness. One is melee damage, while the other is spirit based and *would* be good in a defensive strategy except it requires, at best, our third stat at 504 and our dump stat at 360 which makes it pretty much unusable for a few years. Infusion of light is nice, but it does seem to be defensive.

There's mountains of willpower generating cards for heirarchs, but there's three things you can do with all that willpower... I beg for a little more love for willpower consumption and the "high magical damage" part of heirarchs class description? It just seems all the cards point towards tanking atm.

Since I hate to not be constructive, charm suggestion:
[Consume up to 5 willpower, and for each do the following]
+30 to next magic over 5 turns (of course you can tweak the numbers)

It's a buff, so it can be extended and works with circle of life and infusion of light, and fits in with the "slow but powerful effect" theme the whole willpower consumption thing has going. *totally talks up suggestion*

PS. I think echo shield is a buff but not extendable because its after X turns, the same way dynamite is a poison but doesnt get the bonus from debuffs. Funnily I made a topic in beginner Qs about exactly that yesterday.
« Last Edit: 13:51:13 - 03/09/09 by Bactrian »
some call it beermatics, but i call it science of GODZ! - wolfsoul