Author Topic: PvP Winner if both players die  (Read 3390 times)

Mcbee

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PvP Winner if both players die
« on: 16:41:12 - 11/04/08 »
Now, I've noticed that when you participate in a PvP batte and both player "die" on the same turn, the defender is credited with the win. While I understand this mechanic(tie goes to the runner in baseball, anyone?), I was wondering if you guys might be able to make a small tweak to the current system. In particular, I'm talking about the cards that deal damage to the opponent, but also cause you to lose life as well(e.g. Overheat, Black Heart). Is there a way for these cards to deal their damage in a specific order, for example:

Player A: 8/XXX HP (Attacker)
Player B: 25/XXX HP (Defender)

Now Player A plays Overheat(Lose 12 Life, 49 Magic) and both players "die", however Player B wins because he is the defender. I don't disagree with this scenario at all, it's when the roles are revered it's irks me. Now say the roles are reversed, and Player A is the defender and B the attacker. Player A still plays Overheat, but still wins the battles because inherently, he is the defender. Would it be possible to apply the automatic loss of life, check the player's health, and if he is still allive, continue with the magic damage? Or is this a mechanic that would require much overhaul to complete? Just my 2 cents.
<Lejes> So we're getting (Target enemy Mcbee) and [For each Mcbee] charms next patch, right?

Nipal

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Re: PvP Winner if both players die
« Reply #1 on: 18:26:53 - 11/04/08 »
we decided to give this slight advantage to defender because defense is really not easy in estiah.
and the attacker had the initial move, i don't think it needs to be changed.

Hexatomb

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Re: PvP Winner if both players die
« Reply #2 on: 19:19:27 - 11/04/08 »
Actually Nip, I think he's basing this on the fact that you die in the process of casting the spell. I suppose that you can think of this several ways, we'll take this the way:

World of Warcraft:
1. A Warlock casts Hellfire, killing him/herself in the process.
2. The spell still goes off and damage is then calculated.
3. His/her opponent receives the damage.

Magic: The Gathering Rules:
1. You power the spell with 12 HP and your life total hits 0.
2. You lose and the spell does not resolve.

The Rule states that at anytime your life would hit 0, you lose. This was put in to prevent people from hitting 0, then stacking effects on afterwards to boost themselves back up again.
(This really has no bearing on the point, but the darn rule book is 400+ pages long and it works...)


In conclusion, I think Mcbee is saying that if you die casting the spells, you should die before the other person takes the damage.
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Srdja

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Re: PvP Winner if both players die
« Reply #3 on: 19:22:25 - 11/04/08 »
When I played MTG about 3-4 years ago you didn't lose until all the spells resolved and the stack became empty. Was that changed recently?

Hexatomb

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Re: PvP Winner if both players die
« Reply #4 on: 20:19:55 - 11/04/08 »
I don't know how recent, but yeah. :-)
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Whiteboy

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Re: PvP Winner if both players die
« Reply #5 on: 20:21:25 - 11/04/08 »
I'm pretty sure it was more than 3-4 years ago, because I think I remember that rule being in effect even when Yawgmoth's Bargain was around.

EDIT: Yeah, I just checked, and it was part of the 6th Edition rules changes way back in 1999.  God, I feel like such a dork right now.
« Last Edit: 20:25:03 - 11/04/08 by Whiteboy »

Lezard

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Re: PvP Winner if both players die
« Reply #6 on: 20:22:41 - 11/04/08 »
Even the WoW TCG is like Hexatomb says: the chain breaks if one player has fatal damage on him.

As in Estiah: While it is indeed possible, We will not do that change yet.
Doing this would only have an impact on double-KO where the defender died right before the attacked with a double-effect, and we do not think there is a need to give that additional slight advantage to the attacker.

Currently, there are already multiple checks for death:
Player A plays a charm:
* All effects of the charm are resolved
<Death is checked>
* All Buffs / Debuffs / Sumons resolve
<Death is checked>
* The spirit point of the card used is reduced
<Death is checked>

Srdja

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Re: PvP Winner if both players die
« Reply #7 on: 20:29:45 - 11/04/08 »
I'm pretty sure it was more than 3-4 years ago, because I think I remember that rule being in effect even when Yawgmoth's Bargain was around.

EDIT: Yeah, I just checked, and it was part of the 6th Edition rules changes way back in 1999.  God, I feel like such a dork right now.

Heh, I haven't played in such a long time, I completely forgot it was changed ;)

PS. Yawgmoth's Bargain was so OP back in the day.

Hexatomb

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Re: PvP Winner if both players die
« Reply #8 on: 20:43:44 - 11/04/08 »
Yeah, I see what you mean, Lez. The only thing I could think of to maybe help this would be to give the defender an automatic armor/ward boost somehow.



Necropotence is better :-)

I have a Necropotence suicide black deck that I play in my current group (yeah, I still play!). Since we only play multiplayer though, I usually only play it the last game of the night, or if I'm not ready with a new deck. I usually either Yawgmoth's Will my graveyard with a finisher of Tendrils of Agony and kill someone, then get targeted, or I die because no one likes to discard early game. Good times!
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Srdja

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Re: PvP Winner if both players die
« Reply #9 on: 20:54:42 - 11/04/08 »
Yeah, I see what you mean, Lez. The only thing I could think of to maybe help this would be to give the defender an automatic armor/ward boost somehow.



Necropotence is better :-)

I have a Necropotence suicide black deck that I play in my current group (yeah, I still play!). Since we only play multiplayer though, I usually only play it the last game of the night, or if I'm not ready with a new deck. I usually either Yawgmoth's Will my graveyard with a finisher of Tendrils of Agony and kill someone, then get targeted, or I die because no one likes to discard early game. Good times!


Last off topic post, I promise ::)

That deck would probably be banned in all but one format (vintage I think) :) I don't play anymore, there aren't a lot of people in my proximity that play so I lost touch. Last deck I played was extended WGr Astral Slide, it rocked. The best time I had was about a year after I started playing, there was a legacy tourney and my friend borrowed me his deck. I really don't remember what it was since it was so long ago, but I remember that the cards in it were in excess of 1k$. The look on the opponents faces when they saw me playing it was like WTFOMFGBBQ. I'm guessing they were thinking: "How the hell could that newbie get his hand on such an expensive deck and why the hell am I loosing?" I finished second. :laugh: