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General Forum => Guild Recruitment => Topic started by: Sparky on 21:38:43 - 09/19/12

Title: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Sparky on 21:38:43 - 09/19/12
(http://i.imgur.com/k4aHH.gif) (http://www.estiah.com/guild/24)
(http://www.estiah.com/image/dyn/flag/235.png?1294933643) (http://www.estiah.com/guild/235)

Hello guys, so Qwazee and I have been discussing the possibility of a merger between our guilds, respectively AH (click the unicorns) and KD (click the banner). After submitting the idea to Dreamers and seeing that there were several arguments for and against, it occurred to me that it could be productive to debate about it all on the forums, so everyone can express their point of view and feeling about it and maybe we can even get ideas and suggestions to improve the current state of things and add some fun to the game through guild life.

Qwazee's arguments towards a fusion:
As it is both our guilds have a necrotizing mound of inactive zombie corpses and being in a guild with just a handful of players (note the difference between "player" and "character") isn't really fun nor attractive, it even prompts people to just quit the game altogether, thus making the guild even less active and the game even more boring. It would therefore be profitable to both to get rid of that morbid mass of idle characters and fuse together to have more fun, playing in a livelier atmosphere as well as increasing the possibilities in terms of teamwork (GvG squads, etc).

Discuss.


(http://i.imgur.com/LEZZw.gif) (http://www.estiah.com/guild/24)
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Gothmogged on 22:43:05 - 09/19/12
It can help revitalize moribund guilds.  Club absorbed TTBers, like Gabbin and Merton (plus alts), when TTB went largely inactive.  Various potential worries about guild leadership and/or unity never materialized, but the participants were basically mellow and compatible.   Things have been pretty good since then.

Player retirements, or semi-retirements, have degraded our active population to the point where only a half dozen players remain scattered among the alts, puppets, and zombies.  That seems to be an inevitable part of the life cycle of online games, and activity resurges with the release of new dungeons.
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Generic on 22:55:51 - 09/19/12
As someone who's just starting to play the game again, I like the idea.
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Eschatos on 01:12:36 - 09/20/12
Leadership: We don't have to do any world-breaking decisions, or do we? Other than GHP and recruitment of course.

GvG: There will be people managing squads and guild battles as there are now. The difference is we get to have active chars who can change their decks, and probably more people will get involved which is a good thing I guess.

Guild forums: Active forums, more people discussing gears and strategies for dungeons, plus the whole lot of archive the guilds already have. More people available to answer a question, form a party for a dungeon, help nail the guild contest:P

There will still be people logging in once or twice a day to do their chores, to pop a pot, queue for coli. There will still be people logged in 20 hours a day smashing their heads on Inachis Sewers.

Somebody mention silly guild chat  :o

As I see it, a merger can only add fun to the game. I'm up for it
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Gabbin on 03:45:12 - 09/20/12
As someone who was initially against our guild's merger (sorry Club, I wanted my free unlimited GHP on demand for all my alts all the time!), I've been nothing but happy since it actually happened (yay Club!)!

Side note: That was almost three years ago! oh my god

Back on topic: Looking back, another argument Against was a fear of losing some kind of 'guild identity', which is pretty funny considering I usually felt like an outsider/intruder in TTB anyway!

So yeah, for those against the AH/KD merger, examine your reasons and see where they fall on the Lifeline (http://oi47.tinypic.com/2uy0ec7.jpg)!

!
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Zenetar on 05:48:07 - 09/20/12
but wat happened with HiT and WAND?
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Sparky on 05:53:38 - 09/20/12
but wat happened with HiT and WAND?
WAND is active and doing well, but most WANDerers are still too low level to join our ranks, they're happy staying in WAND to keep growing and learning the perks of guilds. Besides they might even have the will to just grow as an independent guild as it stands. xD
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Cavetroll on 07:42:08 - 09/20/12
I dont like the idea of having all the best players in the game in the same guild. Competition will become very boring. If we need a guild merge, why not merge with some of the weaker guilds instead?
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Quazee on 17:49:55 - 09/20/12
It can help revitalize moribund guilds.

Much like Club, AH isn't succumbing, it rather experiences a state of persistent undeath. In the past 18mo the number of active players stayed roughly constant. Low, but constant.

I dont like the idea of having all the best players in the game in the same guild. (I)
Competition will become very boring. (II)
If we need a guild merge (...) (III)

I. One has to be severely delusional to think that Estiah's "best players" are all flocked up in AH/KD.
II. Against whom is KD competing ? Some folks stopped caring altogether a long time ago (WPS, Club, TSO, AOTD), some folks just don't have the manpower or raw strength (OOBM, CHARM, MITBBS), leaving AH as the only meaningful option. A duet is a duet, but it sure as hell isn't a sign of a healthy GvG competition.
III. Mentioning "necessity" in the context of a fusion is a poor choice, as both sides could simply resume their slumber. The fusion isn't necessary no matter how one "stretches" the idea, but the idea itself does seem like a damned good one.


PS. Emphasizing stuff like undeath/slumber is intentional, I've been waiting for that "the sleeper has awaken" moment for quite a while.
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Uraxor on 18:41:00 - 09/20/12
Some folks stopped caring altogether a long time ago (WPS, Club, TSO, AOTD)

Might be, because it's always the same thing....; what about some GvG clash (competition)?
To stretch the amount of guilds able to compete, you could limit it to wins against guilds within certain rating at the time of fight/challenge..
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Hugliston on 19:40:10 - 09/20/12
What about, instead of a merge, an agreement between guilds to stop sieging one another ? We could simply play battles between guilds and have more fun with it.
It doesn't require many players, can be "upgraded" if things goes fine, we could compete and use fun strat.
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Generic on 02:22:42 - 09/21/12
What about, instead of a merge, an agreement between guilds to stop sieging one another ? We could simply play battles between guilds and have more fun with it.
It doesn't require many players, can be "upgraded" if things goes fine, we could compete and use fun strat.


I don't see the point, really.  There's even less fun in calling a truce.

Think of it this way - let's say the merger does take place.  Where would the active players go? AH? KD? The spirit of this, I believe, is neither.

A new guild of active players starting from the bottom and dominating all the way back to the top sounds like a hell of a lot more fun to me.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Sniffy on 06:30:16 - 09/21/12
A newly-formed guild would start with room for only 10 characters, with 3 additional spaces per guild hall - a heckuva long wait list. Both Hero and KD currently have room to absorb all of each other's actives after the zombie purge, so unless a few players want to splinter off, we're looking at a merger rather than a new guild.  I'm open to a merge if it will bring more lively chat and forum activity.  However, Uraxor/Hug's suggestions for scheduling guild battles (rather than sieges) can also invigorate the game.  Hero and KD don't currently besiege each other, but we haven't yet tried requesting battles with each other (at least not in the 6 months I've been with KD). 

My 8 characters still have epics to craft and achievements to achieve, so I plan on staying happily active whichever way we go. :)
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Eschatos on 15:48:45 - 09/21/12
I thought the point of this was to bring the players together, not the characters :P Like, keep the alts in AH and KD, or bring along an alt or two. Just an idea
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Hugliston on 15:52:49 - 09/21/12
A newly-formed guild would start with room for only 10 characters, with 3 additional spaces per guild hall - a heckuva long wait list.
That.
Also, with battles, you can attack one another more frequently (due to Siege cool down and bigger AP cost)

 
Quote
Both Hero and KD currently have room to absorb all of each other's actives after the zombie purge
That could be cool too, but I guess the one that have to leave their guild, even if they don't pay too much attention to guild mood, may be reluctant to enter in 2 big guilds. What we could do instead is to "shuffle" major guilds' members : so not only two guilds but 4-5 (with enough space in it to keep those inactive, if needed) with 5+ active squads each.

Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Coercion on 18:11:12 - 09/21/12
It really is too bad that so many of the active players would be concentrated in one guild.

Let's say, hypothetically, that there are players in KD that I actively dislike or don't end up getting along with.  My options for dealing with that are rather limited - leave the guild and stay unguilded, leave the guild and go to another one full of people I don't know, or suck it up and stay where I am.

Might end up going back to HiT.
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Sparky on 18:17:11 - 09/21/12
It really is too bad that so many of the active players would be concentrated in one guild.

Let's say, hypothetically, that there are players in KD that I actively dislike or don't end up getting along with. 
Isn't that exactly the same for anyone joining a new guild? Most of our members joined us as they were guildless or as their old guild had died out, they didn't know our members yet... yes there is a risk, but I don't see how that plays against the possibility of a merger, in my opinion it's not any different from the situation when you are new and decide to join a guild.

Also, we're super lovely folks. You can't dislike us. <3
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Misha on 23:56:48 - 09/21/12
Isn't that exactly the same for anyone joining a new guild? Most of our members joined us as they were guildless or as their old guild had died out, they didn't know our members yet... yes there is a risk, but I don't see how that plays against the possibility of a merger, in my opinion it's not any different from the situation when you are new and decide to join a guild.

The difference is that someone who is joining a new guild is not losing their old guild (because they don't have one).
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Rathgar on 01:45:15 - 09/22/12
Every single MMO I've played always equaled to more active players, more fun. This sounds like a good idea to me.
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Bulwarker on 01:53:23 - 09/22/12
Oh hey, I should probably actually use the forum for once, since this affects WAND too! I put the link to this thread in their guild message, too, so maybe it'll get more visibility.

My opinion on this is that having a tighter-knit community is usually a good thing, as long as it's capable of incorporating new blood as well. I know that with Estiah 2 having entered open beta, getting new players for Estiah 1 won't be too easy, but if the merged guilds don't continue to grow, they'll just stagnate again eventually.

Just my two cents.
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Generic on 02:58:36 - 09/22/12
I'm not sure that HIT and WAND are directly impacted by this discussion.
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Astrolabia on 03:16:48 - 09/22/12
A lot of Estiah 1's stagnation comes from the fact that the flow of new content is... well, it's kind of becoming slower and slower to the point where it doesn't exist.The patches between Bloody Deliverance and whatever the one before that was... I think that was Unbound. Jesus, that was a looooong time. Lez and Nip working on Estiah 2 just exacerbates this issue. It does not matter whether there is a merge or not if there's no influx of new blood coming in for purposes of experiencing the game, or being assimilated into hypothetical "new guilds." There is NO growth if that's the case.

I dont like the idea of having all the best players in the game in the same guild. Competition will become very boring. If we need a guild merge, why not merge with some of the weaker guilds instead?

Competition? What competition? There was never any real sense of competition to begin with.

Every single MMO I've played always equaled to more active players, more fun. This sounds like a good idea to me.

The main difference is that MMOs typically have a higher rate of new player recruitment. I wouldn't say the number of new ACTIVE players in Estiah 1 is a rapidly growing statistic. In fact, I'd probably say the opposite. The argument that many new players join could be made, but do they STAY? A lot of players tend to stop playing for numerous reasons. Unfortunately this is a byproduct of a lot of the fun stuff being past Lv49. :|

I'm not sure that HIT and WAND are directly impacted by this discussion.

Don't be so dismissive, the "newbie guilds" can serve as potential impetus for new blood to play the game more and get to the point where we have a more active community up at the higher level brackets. This I feel is the major concern rather than the need for a merger.

That said, I'm pretty indifferent towards the idea of a merger, I just want to make sure people understand some of the concerns behind player base growth.

Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Howiefeltersnatch on 03:45:27 - 09/22/12
Much ado about nothing, I just have to say I am becoming increasingly bored with the game lately and wouldn't mind a shake up.  For me, joining a top guild kills the only motivation/fun I have left, which is to make our guild competitive with the top 2 guilds.  That being said, I would love to have a medium/higher ranked guild merge with us to increase activity and competitiveness.
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Baartabah on 14:28:04 - 09/24/12
Hey everyone.
Sorry for the late answer, I've been a bit busy lately.

I've done a bit thinking concerning this subject and I was quite happy with the idea.
Then i read this thread and the first thing that came to my mind was "wtf ?" ...
Some of us are missing the point here, what we're discussing has very little to do with Estiah.
Here, we're talking about people.

As said, Estiah's been running in slow mo for quite a bit of time and, as a result, we're getting bored.
Once you're done with the content(be it a game or not), you're left with the community.

All of this is just about making new friends.
I'm in :).
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Quazee on 22:36:23 - 09/24/12
q to Sparky, over IRC : "You see, your fire has already burnt out. Mine's not looking that much better, neither. It's one of the reasons for which I prioritize the social aspect over any performance-related issues right now. That's why I'm saying <<screw ratings, screw competition, screw guild branding, let's just hang out together until the ship finally sinks>>."
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Tcdd on 07:25:08 - 09/25/12
sorry for joining this discussion so late, but I didn't have a clear opinion about this... until now.
I am good either way, as long as I stay with some active people. so, merging looks like a little better option from this point of view -> more active people in one place.

but I want to say this: this solution is too easy - seems like giving up to me. there are other options (ditching zombies and merging with our kindergarten guilds, for example, as someone said already). if you are not concerned about ratings and competition anymore, why not letting low ranked/low leveled players in? I think, there is a lot of active players out there. if you really want fresh blood, merging AH with KD isn't going to help. it just purifies the old blood a little.

but don't take ME too seriously. I am not the active type (my first post here, btw). I am just having some fun with this game, while it lasts - so I am for merging.
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Poryg on 18:30:55 - 09/27/12
I'm in WAND, but no matter, I guess.

I actually don't know if fusion is a good idea. Regarding competition it could be very bad, because it could make the game really boring. You know... Login, build, deplete AP... and then logout, seems really boring. But I guess it's the hard bread of 50+levels. You know... In my level I secretly (and I guess one-sidely) compete with my mentor, with my brother-in-arms and with these whom I remember from weaker levels :) Just in order to make the game more interesting for myself.

On the other hand.... Meeting new people would be an opportunity to make some friends. But still, I don't know. We don't use WAND's shoutbox to chat. And questioning private messages... Better not talking about it :)

Oh, well, I guess this post won't tell much... But I personally don't know if it's a good idea.
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Uraxor on 08:28:09 - 09/28/12
Nobody's stopping you(r guild) to merge w/ smn else to balance the scales (well at least restore them as they are now...)

and about the competition; it still is possible at l50, it's just bit more hidden. you often meet the same guys in the coli, you can compete in HP, skills, charm collection or you just run up to the guy and slash the hack out of him  :-[
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Astrolabia on 15:20:52 - 09/28/12
i can't get anymore HP until i reach level 52

sad days
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Medefe on 12:23:48 - 10/02/12
i can't get anymore HP until i reach level 52

sad days
Maybe an "Elixir of Hit Points"...
Title: Re: Hypothetical merger between KD and AH: debate
Post by: Generic on 15:00:41 - 03/18/13
Time to necro.

Lets dooo eeet