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General Forum => Tavern of the glittering charm => Topic started by: Kanesol on 10:11:47 - 06/09/10

Title: This just makes me a sad panda
Post by: Kanesol on 10:11:47 - 06/09/10
http://www.estiah.com/character/combat/replay/id/23803928/owner/34766

And yes, it did hurt.
Title: Re: This just makes me a sad panda
Post by: Kyruko on 10:17:29 - 06/09/10
OP's Post goes here. (http://forum.estiah.com/index.php?topic=3539.0)
Title: Re: This just makes me a sad panda
Post by: Louie on 14:27:28 - 06/09/10
Curses rules!
Title: Re: This just makes me a sad panda
Post by: Velkrin on 18:28:07 - 06/09/10
He gained about +20 ongoing from the two BPs.  A Cursed Femur would have done the same thing, faster, and it would have thrown in some extra damage.
Title: Re: This just makes me a sad panda
Post by: Ixia on 18:35:24 - 06/09/10
He gained about +20 ongoing from the two BPs.  A Cursed Femur would have done the same thing, faster, and it would have thrown in some extra damage.

In case of Coliseum and defensive PvP Blood Pact adds a lot more consistency, and that's quite a point, plus, it isn't intended to be Spirit the drawback of Blood Pact itself?
Title: Re: This just makes me a sad panda
Post by: Louie on 19:12:47 - 06/09/10
He gained about +20 ongoing from the two BPs.  A Cursed Femur would have done the same thing, faster, and it would have thrown in some extra damage.

+20,really? What about the Furious Revenge x2 ~
Title: Re: This just makes me a sad panda
Post by: Velkrin on 05:56:06 - 06/10/10
In case of Coliseum and defensive PvP Blood Pact adds a lot more consistency, and that's quite a point, plus, it isn't intended to be Spirit the drawback of Blood Pact itself?

The attacker (the one with the BPs) was going after an Inquisitor.  An Inquisitor is going to use spirit 9/10 times. 
+20,really? What about the Furious Revenge x2 ~

Those weren't from BP, those were from Revenge.  It was +32 (2 BPs, Decapacitor and Spirit Venom) and +24 (2 BPs, and Spirit Venom).
Title: Re: This just makes me a sad panda
Post by: Azharh on 08:46:52 - 06/10/10
(http://www.monsteryou.com/blog/bloggameage/pandaattack.jpg)
Title: Re: This just makes me a sad panda
Post by: Kanesol on 09:20:24 - 06/10/10
OP's Post goes here. (http://forum.estiah.com/index.php?topic=3539.0)

Thanks for that Kyruko, I was hoping the first post would have been a little more useful. I was trying to facilitate a discussion about the situation. I probably should have pointed that out but I assumed that people would have realised but you know what assuming does :D

So with 53 spirit and 6 self spirit using CPB as a strat combined with double hits defeats a spirit in 24 turns.

Ignoring the level difference 53 spirit is a short deck which should be nearly(emphasis on the nearly) an auto win for spirit especially with 6 self spirit. He did get lucky and I wasn't so lucky and it was close.

But that aside, The Question and points I was hoping to highlight.

That few turns and using CPB as a strat should this be possible?

To me the kind of damage put out and in such a short time would be more the realm of to next.

Is blood pacts drawback big enough?
<-this is the tricky one. Even a small change could make it useless. I think getting rid of the initial +4 ongoing would make it a little more balanced for a lvl 42 charm while leaving it with good synergy with berserkers.

I would like to hear what people have to say about the situation I found myself in.
Title: Re: This just makes me a sad panda
Post by: Dissident on 10:17:06 - 06/10/10
He gained about +20 ongoing from the two BPs.  A Cursed Femur would have done the same thing, faster, and it would have thrown in some extra damage.

The sad thing is both can be used in the same gear :(
Title: Re: This just makes me a sad panda
Post by: Schutzengel on 10:21:33 - 06/10/10
53 isn't short. 53 is just not full.
30 is short.

And actually the key charm in that fight wasn't Blood Pact but Furious Revenge.
If you want to argue about the pact go to the thread about it, it's better than create new topics imo.
Title: Re: This just makes me a sad panda
Post by: Ixia on 11:27:09 - 06/10/10
That few turns and using CPB as a strat should this be possible? [/b]
To me the kind of damage put out and in such a short time would be more the realm of to next.
I agree. I'm fighting against a lot of decks of Blood Pact + EAS + Double Hits, and I'd like to not use a spirit strategy.
I think - things unchanged - I'll go for spirit or melee CPB.

Is blood pacts drawback big enough?
<-this is the tricky one. Even a small change could make it useless. I think getting rid of the initial +4 ongoing would make it a little more balanced for a lvl 42 charm while leaving it with good synergy with berserkers.
I think it should not trigger on EAS. Even with a lot of banes you can't catch up the damage output.
Title: Re: This just makes me a sad panda
Post by: Kanesol on 11:58:08 - 06/10/10
53 isn't short. 53 is just not full.
30 is short.

And actually the key charm in that fight wasn't Blood Pact but Furious Revenge.
If you want to argue about the pact go to the thread about it, it's better than create new topics imo.

Well, it is shorter than 63 but point taken. Don't want to really argue about blood pact as I don't believe that it in itself is a problem it's more..... the combo. Also I like furious revenge, it's an interesting charm and a little different from most out there.

Its more I'm interested in what you think about the situation. What could change? What could I do different? What he could do different? etc

The sad thing is both can be used in the same gear :(

I hope he doesn't realize that :P
Title: Re: This just makes me a sad panda
Post by: Gtxinsane on 12:13:41 - 06/10/10
Curse of Flesh rips open Blood Pact a new asshole.

On a side note:
Quote
That few turns and using CPB as a strat should this be possible?
To me the kind of damage put out and in such a short time would be more the realm of to next.

Using furious revenge, a few blood pacts, crests, and decapitator basically allows zerks to "burst" out insane amounts of damage in such short terms, i've done as much, even more, and in even fewer turns [around 400damage for a double hit in 20 or so turns], as long as the cards are played right. This is really exclusive to zerks though because of FR. Other jobs can do as well, but not as good as zerks.

Bloodpact draw backs should probably include additional lifeloss in the curse, this would balance it greatly, since it shines so well in long term fights. For zerks though, the initial drawback is hardly noticeable, since the spirit is offset by the willpower you get in the crests and the sigils, for other jobs, unless they're fighting against spirit, it's not really game breaking.

Title: Re: This just makes me a sad panda
Post by: Morthalius on 17:46:38 - 06/10/10
Curse of Flesh rips open Blood Pact a new asshole.

On a side note:
Quote
That few turns and using CPB as a strat should this be possible?
To me the kind of damage put out and in such a short time would be more the realm of to next.

Using furious revenge, a few blood pacts, crests, and decapitator basically allows zerks to "burst" out insane amounts of damage in such short terms, i've done as much, even more, and in even fewer turns [around 400damage for a double hit in 20 or so turns], as long as the cards are played right. This is really exclusive to zerks though because of FR. Other jobs can do as well, but not as good as zerks.

Bloodpact draw backs should probably include additional lifeloss in the curse, this would balance it greatly, since it shines so well in long term fights. For zerks though, the initial drawback is hardly noticeable, since the spirit is offset by the willpower you get in the crests and the sigils, for other jobs, unless they're fighting against spirit, it's not really game breaking.



Don't forget to mention what happens when the charm order isn't good :P
Title: Re: This just makes me a sad panda
Post by: Winterfate on 23:12:29 - 06/10/10
Quote
Don't forget to mention what happens when the charm order isn't good :P

+1

Turn1: Winterfate uses Blood Pact
Winterfate takes 3 spirit damage
bla
bla
bla
Turn3: Winterfate uses Blood Pact
Winterfate takes 3 spirit damage
bla
bla
bla
Turn5: Winterfate uses Blood Pact
Winterfate takes 3 spirit damage
bla
bla
bla

I wanted to destroy the RNG. 9 spirit damage is serious business, notwithstanding the "free Hyphused CPB" every turn (that is, +6 to melee (ongoing) ).
Title: Re: This just makes me a sad panda
Post by: Gtxinsane on 02:35:46 - 06/11/10
9 spirit damage is fine. If you have BERZERKER CREZTZZZZ.
Title: Re: This just makes me a sad panda
Post by: Sparky on 02:56:07 - 06/11/10
9 spirit damage is fine. If you have Unyielding Will.
Well gotta make it sound useful...
Title: Re: This just makes me a sad panda
Post by: Gtxinsane on 08:55:03 - 06/11/10
Unyielding Will = 2 Fate of Acamars, 2 Soulcries, 3 Voodoo Heads, 4 Gloom Knells.


NERF UNYIELDING WILL.
Title: Re: This just makes me a sad panda
Post by: Generica on 14:51:32 - 06/11/10
Quote
Don't forget to mention what happens when the charm order isn't good :P

+1

Turn1: Winterfate uses Blood Pact
Winterfate takes 3 spirit damage
bla
bla
bla
Turn3: Winterfate uses Blood Pact
Winterfate takes 3 spirit damage
bla
bla
bla
Turn5: Winterfate uses Blood Pact
Winterfate takes 3 spirit damage
bla
bla
bla

I wanted to destroy the RNG. 9 spirit damage is serious business, notwithstanding the "free Hyphused CPB" every turn (that is, +6 to melee (ongoing) ).

Erm, I'd be ecstatic if I pulled 3 bps by turn 5, better than pulling them at turn 11, 13 & 15. I'll take the 9 spirit damge kthx.
Title: Re: This just makes me a sad panda
Post by: Morthalius on 20:54:41 - 06/11/10
Quote
Don't forget to mention what happens when the charm order isn't good :P

+1

Turn1: Winterfate uses Blood Pact
Winterfate takes 3 spirit damage
bla
bla
bla
Turn3: Winterfate uses Blood Pact
Winterfate takes 3 spirit damage
bla
bla
bla
Turn5: Winterfate uses Blood Pact
Winterfate takes 3 spirit damage
bla
bla
bla

I wanted to destroy the RNG. 9 spirit damage is serious business, notwithstanding the "free Hyphused CPB" every turn (that is, +6 to melee (ongoing) ).

Erm, I'd be ecstatic if I pulled 3 bps by turn 5, better than pulling them at turn 11, 13 & 15. I'll take the 9 spirit damge kthx.

It's still a risk, especially with vicious circle, that's an additional 3 spirit damage you're giving them.
Title: Re: This just makes me a sad panda
Post by: Sparky on 21:29:10 - 06/11/10
Quote
Don't forget to mention what happens when the charm order isn't good :P

+1

Turn1: Winterfate uses Blood Pact
Winterfate takes 3 spirit damage
bla
bla
bla
Turn3: Winterfate uses Blood Pact
Winterfate takes 3 spirit damage
bla
bla
bla
Turn5: Winterfate uses Blood Pact
Winterfate takes 3 spirit damage
bla
bla
bla

I wanted to destroy the RNG. 9 spirit damage is serious business, notwithstanding the "free Hyphused CPB" every turn (that is, +6 to melee (ongoing) ).

Erm, I'd be ecstatic if I pulled 3 bps by turn 5, better than pulling them at turn 11, 13 & 15. I'll take the 9 spirit damge kthx.

It's still a risk, especially with vicious circle, that's an additional 3 spirit damage you're giving them.
My yeah I so agree, Blood Pact is so risky and there's such a drawback for the little boost it provides, at lvl 42 it's barely usable, people should stop whining about it already it's getting old. http://www.estiah.com/pvp/coliseum/tournament/id/98749 (http://www.estiah.com/pvp/coliseum/tournament/id/98749)