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General Forum => Class Discussion => Topic started by: Shroud on 09:16:00 - 11/05/09

Title: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Shroud on 09:16:00 - 11/05/09
(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/971/eizopath.jpg) (http://img213.imageshack.us/i/eizopath.jpg/)

[Taken from the original Shelter of Silence creator; Dagan; alas, he has passed on...to real life.
I'll update the information, eventually, to reflect current metagame for Assassins --> Shroud  8) ]


The battles of Estiah are not always won and lost with spectacular displays of brawn, magic, or face melting. Many conflicts are decided with no spectators, no glory, no honor, but rather a soft footstep and a sharp knife to the ribs. We are the class that excels in staying hidden, untargeted, until an opportunity presents itself. We are here for your money. We are here for your life. We are here…for your WAFFLEZ.

While an Assassin’s forte is its melee expertise, they are not the hard-hitting beasts that are the Berserkers, nor are do they resemble the mountain-like Warlords or the destructive Champions. Rather, they rely on piling up lightning-quick strikes against an opponent, with an increasing amount of damage dealt later in the rounds. In group combat, they have the added ability of avoiding focus, allowing them to generate boat-loads of dps at will.



To become an Assassin, you first must meet these (http://www.estiah.com/class/detail/id/19) requirements.

The Path of the Assassin

Primary: Scout (http://www.estiah.com/class/detail/id/2) - Rogue (http://www.estiah.com/class/detail/id/7) - Assassin (http://www.estiah.com/class/detail/id/19)
Secondary: Novice (http://www.estiah.com/class/detail/id/3) - Monk (http://www.estiah.com/class/detail/id/9) - Assassin (http://www.estiah.com/class/detail/id/19)

It is HIGHLY suggested that you choose the first route. The natural skills you develop will go along way towards making the transition to Assassin as smooth as possible, as well as providing you with quality charms to use even in your later levels.

Stats and Skills

Your primary stats are Dexterity and Intellect. With a bit more emphasis on Dexterity, these two stats should be your primary focus from the beginning. Power and Constitution will become what's referred to as your "dump stats". In general, when you hit the 900/900 on your normal skill gain, its best to have at around 450 Dexterity, 400 Intellect, and around 350 each of Power and Consitution. There are charm options for focusing more on one dump stat than another, and provide differing styles of play; the choice is yours.

Focusing on skills and jobs that add Dexterity and Intellect should be a no brainer, but there are certain jobs and skills that one can take that will lead to a more meteoric rise. Remorselessness and Reflexes add to your primary stats, as well as being required to become an Assassin; start training them as early as possible. Any job or skill that adds to HP is EXTREMELY useful. A tip: start leveling Courage and Heroism as soon as possible; its much easier to gain those skills at the lower levels.





Assassin Charms


(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/1747/assassingd4.jpg) (http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=assassingd4.jpg)
(http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/2978/assassin2tk4.jpg) (http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=assassin2tk4.jpg)

Thoughts:

- Assassin's Sigil - has its place in group PvP and dungeons because of Vanish (which sheds Focus), as well as a limited use in a few solo dungeons due to the high penetration, but beyond that, its usefulness is limited.

- Sonic Blade - highest damage EA charm in the game right now, and should never be out of your gears unless you're very worried about Spirit damage.

- Ambush - there are several high-level dungeons in the game that almost every class has trouble with except for Assassins, and its because of these charms. Useful in PvP and selected dungeons, not so much in solo PvP and Arena.

- Assassin's Cloak - an odd combination; why would you need the Armor and Ward if you're shedding Focus? Less useful than Assassin's Sigil if you're worried about being Focused.

- Sneak Up - again, limited to use against certain PvP groups and certain dungeon fights.

- Brutal Blow - with the introduction of Release Karma, Brutal Blow became even more valuable. Very solid damage output. Only consider removing it from your gears if you're facing a heavy Spirit user.

- Assassinate - excellent in group PvP, it allows the rest of your group to Focus on that weakest target you've been so diligently slicing away at. Also takes one of the most frustrating fights for most other classes (Skeletal Warden in King of No Man) and makes it your bitch.

- Finishing Move - definitely hit or miss. I've done as low as 26 damage and as high as 218. Toss a few in your gears and pray that you play them towards the end of the battle, after lots of ongoing melee buffs.






More info coming soon. I'll expand on the Stats and Skills section, as well as add some PvP tips.





Title: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Shroud on 09:19:34 - 11/05/09
Other Useful Charms



(http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/9871/strikevn5.jpg) (http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=strikevn5.jpg)

- Found in the Village of Cyneth, fights 1 and 2
- Group PvP and group dungeons are much easier with a melee group toting multiple Strikes. An X-Strike is a target lover's wet dream.

(http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/6669/heartseekerrr5.jpg) (http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heartseekerrr5.jpg)

- Found in A Cure, fight 3
- More wonderful cherrypicking.

(http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/7909/machfistjn2.jpg) (http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=machfistjn2.jpg)

- Crafted in Night Tear using Mithril Bar x3, Hypowder x1, Vitaweed x2, Volcanite x1
- EA damage charm with a damage output second only to the Sonic Blade. A staple in almost every Assassin's gears.

(http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/6223/hyphusedtp5.jpg) (http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hyphusedtp5.jpg)

- Created using Vial of Hyphine, found in the Underground Academy, boss fight
- Melee damage as well as an ongoing melee buff makes the charm very tough to replace. Catch these in the beginning of the match and your Brutal Blows will be VERY brutal at the end.

(http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/462/nightcloakzo4.jpg) (http://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nightcloakzo4.jpg)

- Found in Escorting Chopley, fight 3
- Ongoing melee buffs are a necessity, and one that grants an EA is even more so.

(http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/1878/karmaxb2.jpg) (http://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=karmaxb2.jpg)

- Found in Last Echo of the Thunder
- Release Karma takes care of two issues with one incredible charm. Adds 16 (!) to ongoing melee, and protects against Spirit users and your own Brutal Blows. The 28 life is a very small price to pay.
Title: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Shroud on 09:19:54 - 11/05/09
Reserved
Title: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Shroud on 09:20:11 - 11/05/09
Reserved
Title: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Shroud on 09:31:41 - 11/05/09
Since Dagan apparently doesn't play anymore (his current avatar signifies his character is now a Kasyn clone); decided to start up a new thread for the Assassin T3 Class.

The metagame has changed a lot from then to now, and the OP currently contains outdated and/or lacks current charms/builds for the current meta. I've been wanting to update it with the new twinblades, and other interesting charms that focuses specifically on the attribute strengths of the Assassin.

As Lez/Nip suggested, from this thread http://forum.estiah.com/index.php?topic=1636.msg45710#msg45710, I started up a new topic.

(Unfortunately, I can't do that right now, since I need to sleep in a bit).

Lez/Nip, regarding the information from Dagan's OP; I'll copied it already as my first post; I'll update it to my taste. Just need to move the contents over from the original one.

Cheers!
Shroud
Title: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Lezard on 11:46:05 - 11/05/09
Merging topics

Edit: merging won't work. the oldest post will always come first. So this will just become the new assassin's topic. I'm locking the old one.

Edit2: To shroud, as I told you I could have directly copied the BBcode from Dagan's post to save you some trouble :)
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Zenetar on 14:46:45 - 11/05/09
AWESOME! ;D

(http://antimarc.flashrapid.com/spaptions/MOAR.jpg)


@Shroud: write some notes about stats too
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Evangeline88 on 18:14:57 - 11/05/09
Cool ...

We (I) have been waiting for this ...
Thanks Shroud :D
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Drevik on 20:37:19 - 11/05/09
Just hit 41 on my Assassin.  Looking forward to some updated infoz!
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Nimaron on 21:47:31 - 11/05/09
Go for it Shroud!

But you need to update the picture of the Assassin class trainer - it doesn't show Flash Bomb :D (aka it's older than Einar's grandfather, which is an achievement on its own)
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Shroud on 22:10:06 - 11/05/09
@Everybody:

I know; I know, that I need to update the initial post. I copied it from the original... :)

I'll try to finish the first post (with Assassin class charms) this weekend. I'll move the section regarding preferred supporting charms and twinblade craft/drops from the OP to the subsequent sections, and then I'll try to update the 3rd section with class builds, and what not.

3rd section builds would probably require more inputs from the more veteran Assassins out there; but I'll write what I've gleaned from them :)
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Daluva on 01:34:04 - 11/29/09
Any new Assassin charms from Crimson Kata Mines? The craft from Dark Tide looks pretty nice, obviously best for guild fights:

Daggers of Suspicion
(Target enemy with lowest HP)
[For each enemy]

27 Melee (45% P)

Level 47  609 Dex  435 Int

Although like a lot of conditional twinblades (Tears of the Gods, Finishing Move{Sin only}, Violette's Roses), it can be hit or miss even in the guild setting. These charms are making twinblade users rely more on luck of timing than on skill. Would bedevastating if the timing is always right though.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Zenetar on 08:44:40 - 11/29/09
@Daluva
It's better to make some mathcraft before relying on luck.

My thoughts (they maybe wrong) about Finishing move:
You run meele cpb strat via an avg player (we don't mention his class, deck used, etc.)
You've got 50 charms deck with 5 Finishing moves.
Let's say, u need to play about 15-17-20 (i'm not sure about the right amount) charms to reduce enemy's hp to 50%.
You've got at least 30 charms left.
It's a no-brainer that most of the time, most of ur Finishing Moves (3 out of 5) are in these 30 charms left.
They are gonna be buffed by previous cpb charms and later they deal devastating damage.

Conclusion: Finishing Move is a must in Assasin's gear.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Daluva on 19:31:53 - 11/29/09
@Daluva
It's better to make some mathcraft before relying on luck.

My thoughts (they maybe wrong) about Finishing move:
You run meele cpb strat via an avg player (we don't mention his class, deck used, etc.)
You've got 50 charms deck with 5 Finishing moves.
Let's say, u need to play about 15-17-20 (i'm not sure about the right amount) charms to reduce enemy's hp to 50%.
You've got at least 30 charms left.
It's a no-brainer that most of the time, most of ur Finishing Moves (3 out of 5) are in these 30 charms left.
They are gonna be buffed by previous cpb charms and later they deal devastating damage.

Conclusion: Finishing Move is a must in Assasin's gear.



I agree with your logic on some level, however at lvl 40+ most 1v1 fights that I have encountered usually end within 20-30 charms (30 with 1/4 extra actions). This means by your logic of needing 15-20 charms to reduce an opponents health below 50%, there are about 10 more charms you will be able to play from a 55-60 charm gear. According to your no-brainer that would leave about 3 FM's out of 40 charms left, with only 10 turns left to play them, I dont like those odds. Also if FM was drawn in those first 15 cards, its basically a dead draw and you are stuck trying to catch up with your own CPB strat.

I know CPB melee decks using Hyphused, Night Cloaks, Release Karma's become devastating after 15-20 charms of constant draws, but this often isnt the case, and early FM draws cripple this. I agree that CPB melee is the way to go with Finishing Move, but I feel that a gear with that strategy still relies a lot on luck for both early CPB draws as well as late FM draws.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Hellmaster on 09:42:47 - 12/01/09
Well let's do my first post in the new assassin thread (I know you were all waiting for me ;)).

About Finishing Move, it's a hit or miss, there's no discussion here. It's not as reliable as other double hit charms, and it's intended to be so, since you're an Assassin and not  a Berserker. Still, it's worth to include in group fights if you are using a CPB strategy.

Finally, hands up for Violette's Roses and Daggers of Suspicion, hands down for the highest lvl twinblade: Noxious Injector.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Dissident on 11:31:33 - 12/01/09
Does the summon in Noxious Injector deal damage to your opponent?
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Shroud on 12:02:16 - 12/01/09
Hey Hellmaster :) Welcome :p

For Finishing Move, I actually only use 3 in my 1on1 decks in general; Hellmaster is correct that they are hit-and-miss. I HAVE won a couple of fights what that as my last charm (which is fun to see), and can be devastating when they come out correctly.

Haven't seen noxious injector in action yet; seems to be to specific though. Haven't used Daggers of Suspicion either, but it looks promising, and Violette's Roses is a really great charm that complements Assassinate.

Tears of the Gods is an interesting supplementary charm; not required, but can be used as an effective filler, I think... :)
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Slalderma on 12:15:13 - 12/01/09
Does the summon in Noxious Injector deal damage to your opponent?

Yes.  You play NI, the summons "attaches" to your enemy and deals damage to the enemy.  Summoners are vulnerable to this charm since they tend to play a lot of "+x to summons" charms.  This extends the summon damaging them.  Lots of other players use Star Gauntlets for various reasons and NI acts as a penalty to them as well.  Gyzochrome Enabler, which adds +2 to all summons to all players, is a good combination between various other DoTs and NI.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Dissident on 16:09:08 - 12/01/09
Neat. Thanks for clarifying.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Zenetar on 17:09:15 - 12/01/09
Violette's Rose - I can't find this charm in Wiki  :(
The page wasn't created
.

EDIT: Fixed
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Xyzzy on 23:57:44 - 12/01/09
Yes.  You play NI, the summons "attaches" to your enemy and deals damage to the enemy.

I feel we need a name for this new mechanic, as the wording on the charm is obviously confusing.  I propose "Summon Parasite".
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Aurones on 10:38:48 - 12/02/09
Hi all friends, i have for now a lvl 17 char and i want it to be an assasin so i don´t have clear enough what kind of charms i have to use, for the moment i use frost, twinblades, swords and some lightning (Lightning Reflexes).

I don´t know really if i am going in the right way or not so coul anyone help me please?

my stats are:
pow 37
dex 79
con 56
int 60
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Zenetar on 11:25:29 - 12/02/09
My opinion
Stats
from lvl 1 to lvl 30:
1st stat Dex, 2nd Pow, 3rd Int
after lvl 32-34 to lvl 40
Dex, Int, Pow
After lvl 40 - pro Assasins advise to dump int, and raise Pow, Con, Dex.

Route: Scout>Rogue>Assasin

Skills that u use in PvP before lvl 30: Shadow, Fire, Sword, Twinblades.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Aurones on 13:04:35 - 12/02/09
Thanks, but someone told me that assasins uses frost..., so then i leave frost?
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Zenetar on 13:32:31 - 12/02/09
Thanks, but someone told me that assasins uses frost..., so then i leave frost?
You aren't an Assasin yet. Frost is useless till lvl 35-36.
It's up to you to decide which deck to use.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Aurones on 15:57:23 - 12/02/09
Ok thank you
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Justin on 08:13:22 - 12/03/09
Thanks, but someone told me that assasins uses frost..., so then i leave frost?

How Frost viable on assassin?
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Zenetar on 08:30:45 - 12/03/09
How Frost viable on assassin?
It depends a lot on ur stat spread. You won't use any class charms if u are going to make a magic cpb (Frost) deck.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Koralin on 10:31:26 - 12/03/09
Well, you would probably still use Assassinate.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Hellmaster on 11:33:51 - 12/03/09
As eventually your stats will grow to the point where you can use almost any charm in the game, all strategies are viable for everyone. Of course, your class should determine wich one/s will you do better than others (i.e. Inquisitors->Spirit/Banes).
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Llanor on 06:24:19 - 12/04/09

After lvl 40 - pro Assasins advise to dump int, and raise Pow, Con, Dex.


Are the high level twinblades really that bad?
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Shroud on 07:12:52 - 12/04/09

After lvl 40 - pro Assasins advise to dump int, and raise Pow, Con, Dex.


Are the high level twinblades really that bad?

Not bad... just... not PVP competitive... especially on a one-on-one scenario. High damage melee charms normally require CON as 1st/2nd stat; Maces and Axes require CON; a few months ago, there wasn't really any game-breaking, or clutch twinblade charm. You could easily not use any twinblade aside from the Assassin's class charms. Swords and Fists (if you go Dex/Int/Pow, which is the logical progression, because both Twinblades and Swords are DEX high) also suffered from lack of itemization before, which compounded the problem, as well as the bane mechanic change (EA Spam was the way to go for Assassins prior to that update).

As of now though, there are some really good Twinblades now (Violette's Roses, for example), and additional itemization for Swords and Fists as well. The metagame has shifted enough, I believe, that Dex/Pow/Int Assassins are again more viable.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Khlyst on 08:29:21 - 12/04/09
both Twinblades and Swords are DEX high
this. from mid 40s to lvl50 twinblades require 360-435 int which is very low for its levels. there are some exceptions, such as cripple but it didn't go well in any strategy i use. so INT is quite safe to dump as  i don't see any use for it except for twinblades.
And also you'll need pow and con for spirit and summon respectively.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Keyar on 08:43:52 - 12/04/09
both Twinblades and Swords are DEX high
this. from mid 40s to lvl50 twinblades require 360-435 int which is very low for its levels. there are some exceptions, such as cripple but it didn't go well in any strategy i use. so INT is quite safe to dump as  i don't see any use for it except for twinblades.
And also you'll need pow and con for spirit and summon respectively.


Hah! Power is sooo overestimated. I've kept my pow at 200 even until now at lvl48 and I haven't struggled at all, or whined about it at the forums! Or maybe just a little... ... ... =P
Edit: The previous comment was sarcasm. For people who don't understand sarcasm, don't bother, it just means its greatness overpowers your abilities.

Anyways, you don't need anything, though it helps to have a decent amount of pow. Alot.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Shroud on 08:52:04 - 12/04/09
Hah! Power is sooo overestimated. I've kept my pow at 200 even until now at lvl48 and I haven't struggled at all, or whined about it at the forums! Or maybe just a little... ... ... =P


You did. The one that left a mark was the thread for Dark Tide fight 1 :p

Also, I don't think over-estimated would be the right word... over-utilized fits better, since it's also used for banes, summons and spirit.

Int feels under-utilized really... as a game mechanic, what comes to mind is healing, but that's more of a class mechanic for the hierarch rather than a viable strategy for non-hierarchs.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Evangeline88 on 18:29:44 - 12/04/09
How about Con?
Is it good for Assassins?
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Zenetar on 18:52:56 - 12/04/09
Most of meele CPB strategies require Slash and Thrust, so Assasins should have them too. Hence, they should have enough Con for SnT
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Llanor on 06:16:00 - 12/10/09
Is high-end spirit viable for an assassin, or do the power reqs make it unfeasible?
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Hellmaster on 09:20:36 - 12/10/09
The most requiring spirit charms are Vicious Circle and Ritual Mask atm, wich require 522 Pow and Dex. The next is Terrible Idea with 462, so you can see it's really easy to use all the spirit charms besides those two, wich maybe will require a little more effort.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Gothmogged on 10:32:07 - 12/10/09
Terrible Idea is well named.  Vicious Circle on the other hand is worth consideration.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Daluva on 18:06:41 - 12/19/09
The new epic charm for twin blade users:

Kiss of Lesath
Vanish
(Target enemy with lowest HP)
83 Melee (45% P)
-1 maximum action per turn for target

Requires Level 50
663 Dex 507 Int
Twin Blades (R5)

I personally see no downside to this charm :) Does anyone have a clue to offer as to how to get it?
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Merton on 23:23:53 - 12/19/09
I can pm you how to get it.  Frankly now that the contest is over, I hope this makes it on to the wiki someday soon, simply because even knowing the process, getting the charms is a tremendous bitch.  Though on the other hand, I guess keeping it a secret is meant to keep them from being too commonplace (see: Panda/Bel'hathal).

Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Hellmaster on 01:37:40 - 12/20/09
The charm is great, no need of more words. It doesn't fit in my current gear because I need them to play extra turns for my banes doing damage, but it's really an impressive harm. 663 Dex is a lot though, I wont be able to use it for now.

PD: I'd welcome that PM Merton :)
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Spectear on 21:28:07 - 01/08/10
I sent the gist of this to Merton as well as asking him for the process of getting a Kiss of Lesath myself but I wanted to get a more broad opinion of the bulk of my message to him.

I was wondering since it seems that most Assassins would like to or actually do not use the majority of the class/Twinblade charms available to them and instead focus on multi-hit extra action and ongoing melee charms.  While the theory behind that is sound I simply ask at that point why even bother to choose the Assassin class since it seems that we are not really utilizing the majority of what makes our class unique?  I don't mean to sound disheartened and please understand I am very new to the game (only level 10 as I type this) but I was curious as to why aside from a few Finishing Moves the majority of charms are not used.  Possibly because they are somewhat lackluster at least in 1v1?

I would like to hear from veteran Assassin players especially those that have decks they are happy with and those who aren't what they would wish to change.  Would you even bother leveling this class again if you could re-roll given that you aren't utilizing a lot of it's uniqueness?  The new charm alone seems like it would certainly bring a bit of balance to a class that seems somewhat lacking although I do not fully understand what is meant by the "-1 maximum action per turn for target".  Does that mean they are unable to play a single charm for the rest of the combat or turn?

Finally if anyone is willing to share on here or via PM I am curious what complete decks look like as well as ideal decks.  For example I would like 5 Release Karmas and 5 Slash and Thrust and 5 etc etc in my ideal deck assuming I could hit these stats again opinions from players who have made at least the partial decks and play-tested it would be most appreciated.

Thank you for your time everyone.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Shroud on 21:39:25 - 01/08/10
Well... the older assassins probably took it on because it was a cool name :p

Seriously speaking, T1/T2 path of Assassins (Scout-Rogue) are hands-down dominant during their period. In the early T3, they also are (the rogue self-stuns still work until roughly lvl 43-44).

Prior to the change in mechanics for banes (wherein bane duration lessened as normal during EA turns) and the addition of class crests, Assassins were the best in doing EA spams (decks primarily composed of EAs; champs do that better now in the higher levels).

Take note that Assassins, hands down, have the best targeting mechanic of all classes: the Target Lowest HP (I can't say the same for Vanish though). That alone makes them very effective in groups fights.

That's why Assassins don't seem effective on one-on-one as opposed to, say a Zerk.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Zenetar on 21:49:36 - 01/08/10
Finishing Move is not the only unique Assasin's charm.

Look for T3 class charms in wiki and compare them.
Imo Assasins arent competitive in early T3 1v1 not only because of class charms, but also because of stat spread (Dex-Int)

Later on - from lvl 44 - Assasins are doing OK in 1v1, while still being very powerful in 2v2/3v3/GvG
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Spectear on 22:04:31 - 01/08/10
Thanks for the quick responses.  I have read the wiki and I am well aware that Finishing Move is not the only unique Assassin charm but it doesn't seem like most of them are being utilized by Assassins which is what I wanted to draw attention to.  I certainly agree that targeting in group fights makes Assassins excellent there but I was just curious if there was any reasonable viability for 1v1.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Slalderma on 22:27:08 - 01/08/10
Sure there's viability - but like nearly EVERY class, you don't use a lot of your class charms in 1v.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Schutzengel on 00:33:19 - 01/09/10
Well... the older assassins probably took it on because it was a cool name :p

Seriously speaking, T1/T2 path of Assassins (Scout-Rogue) are hands-down dominant during their period. In the early T3, they also are (the rogue self-stuns still work until roughly lvl 43-44).
[...]
What?
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Seasonaltnt on 00:35:11 - 01/09/10
Probably meant the Self Stun charms from ToT.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Toben on 01:18:18 - 01/09/10
No, he probably just meant self-spirit, not self-stun. And he's right, those charms are pretty nasty even in the early 40s.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Kosiciel on 19:18:59 - 01/09/10
Self-spirit - yes, they are. Self-stun - uhm,  :-X
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Shroud on 12:01:59 - 01/10/10
Hahah... My bad for the typo :p
Yes, i meant self-spirit.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Masura on 03:38:31 - 03/12/10
are siren's songs and cripple that bad or should a good assainain not bother disableing a target
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Merton on 05:18:11 - 03/12/10
Cripple is worth having for the combo alone.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Mario766 on 18:54:52 - 05/15/10
I find that Siren's Songs are better suited for PVE parts more then PvP battles, Cripple...well I haven't ran any of that yet but I would find that very useful.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Zenetar on 19:36:48 - 05/15/10
are siren's songs and cripple that bad or should a good assainain not bother disableing a target
Cripple can be good at lvl 44-45 for 2v2 or 3v3 (I'm not sure) combo with Rockslide
The bad thing is, that very few assassins have that high dex/int at 45 in order to use cripple
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Masura on 00:23:05 - 07/02/10
what about that new charm they just made, ivory neddles?
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Velkrin on 06:26:26 - 07/02/10
http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Ivory_Needles

(Target enemy with lowest HP)
40 Melee (45% P)
-4 to the duration of target's auras
[For each ongoing magic damage modifier on target]
2 Ward (cumul)
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Yurrd on 13:35:27 - 10/05/10
i need someone to help me on this..

any suggestions for my dump stat? i didn't really think about it all these while..

Currently this is my stats-
Pow: 336
Int: 434
Dex: 527
Con: 301

i really don't know how to play my stats anymore..i cant get access to many double hits due to low con and pow..but if i do up those stats, i'll not be able to use many of my twinblades charms..
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Thatguy on 14:30:36 - 10/05/10
I would highly recommend laying off the int, as you have nearly enough to run L47 TB (unless you wanted to run more fists sooner, but in that case you need to boost that pow too). Get a bit more dex for Violette's and Colithon Daggers, and then decide what you want to do. Pow seems to be the more obvious choice because it offers more flexible melee options (Sword, medium Fist, weak axe) as opposed to Con which offers mostly magic alternatives (medium Holy, weak spear, weak earth).
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Zenetar on 15:13:19 - 10/05/10
Get 348 con anyway. It gives you two double-hits (SnT and Eroded Wave Splitter)
Then go for the POWER! (as Thatguy said above)
Power gives you some decent melee runes and Spirit, which is very good for a back-up strategy.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Yurrd on 09:19:47 - 10/06/10
so i guess i gotta up my con to at least 348 first to get access to the SnY and wave splitter, then boost my power right? i'm just concern with the cap on amount of skill points i can still gain..

oh well..just needed a direction to work towards..i was actually kinda like going to start on boosting Con if no one replied me...

Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Sparky on 09:24:51 - 10/06/10
i'm just concern with the cap on amount of skill points i can still gain....
There's no cap on stats you can get. You have a max growth of 900, meaning that once you're at 900/900 you won't get instant stats from food or jobs anymore, but you'll still get stats from skills (even from skills mastered through working), AND there's always the elixirs which allow you to get +1 stat everyday and aren't limited by the growth cap. So in the end you'll have 700+ in all stats anyway. No worries.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Zenetar on 10:04:50 - 10/06/10
Quote
So in the end you'll have 700+ in all stats anyway.
Just like any other l52 player. ;D
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Ormos on 10:41:17 - 10/06/10
Quote
So in the end you'll have 700+ in all stats anyway.
Just like any other l52 player. ;D

you will hit it before you are 52, ill get it way before i get near 52
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Zenetar on 11:18:50 - 10/06/10
Quote
So in the end you'll have 700+ in all stats anyway.
Just like any other l52 player. ;D

you will hit it before you are 52, ill get it way before i get near 52
I know that, just saying random stuff
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Wercool on 16:02:48 - 10/27/10
well i'm going for an assasin on my alt and i'm dumping strenth. because it only gets axe and fist both of which have next to no penetration (which i like(a lot)) so i'm going dex-int-con-str
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Zenetar on 16:55:54 - 10/27/10
Quote
well i'm going for an assasin on my alt and i'm dumping strenth
Good luck to you

Quote
because it only gets axe and fist both of which have next to no penetration (which i like(a lot))
There were a lot of discussions in Suggestions subforum about penetration and %P.
So far, penetration has proved itself to be one of the worst / least used mechanics in Estiah

Power gives Assassins Sword and Fist runes. Both of them are useful in current metagame. You may check high level sword and fist charms, but the main are: Sword - [Celestial Sword], [Corrupted Fireblade] Fist - [Exacerbating Talons] and [Wind Demon Claws]

It's up to you to decide, but don't compare runes in Tier 0 - Tier 1 levels.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Wercool on 03:08:07 - 10/28/10
Quote
well i'm going for an assasin on my alt and i'm dumping strenth
Good luck to you

Quote
because it only gets axe and fist both of which have next to no penetration (which i like(a lot))
There were a lot of discussions in Suggestions subforum about penetration and %P.
So far, penetration has proved itself to be one of the worst / least used mechanics in Estiah

Power gives Assassins Sword and Fist runes. Both of them are useful in current metagame. You may check high level sword and fist charms, but the main are: Sword - [Celestial Sword], [Corrupted Fireblade] Fist - [Exacerbating Talons] and [Wind Demon Claws]

It's up to you to decide, but don't compare runes in Tier 0 - Tier 1 levels.
yea right now (lvl 13) im using twinblades spear lightning holy. it working so far. but i could switch pow and con
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Blacksol on 03:47:10 - 10/28/10
and you need pow for spirit.  Seemingly pow dump is one of the harder play styles as pow is needed for a lot of charms.  Good luck
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Zenetar on 06:30:34 - 10/28/10
Quote
yea right now (lvl 13) im using twinblades spear lightning holy. it working so far. but i could switch pow and con
If I was l13 and I was using Axes, Maces or Fire Shadow, you'd have 0 chances against me because my runes have more damage in general.

You can easily switch stats before l20. You can do it even after, but it would cause some difficulties.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Gtxinsane on 09:08:37 - 10/28/10
Quote
You can easily switch stats before l20. You can do it even after, but it would cause some difficulties.

Actually, it would still be easy, in one of my alts, i switched stats post 30 (Shaman->Warden), in which i was planning for him to become inq. At 32, i managed to make up for the lost stats.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Dreamborne on 02:13:48 - 10/30/10
my humble advice would be to kind of try to keep all your stats balanced, nothing beats getting some nice cpb and then whacking void bolts followed by snts and corrupted fireblades. As for daggers, pretty much the only good ones are lesaths and suspicion for gvg so >.<
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Keyar on 02:47:23 - 11/04/10
Power is for weaklings =P
I've never complained about how difficult completing dungeons with low power has been... Or maybe a little... *cough*
But anyway, low power works, I was pretty much dominating(well, me and Shroud =P) the coli in the early 40s(spears and maces are pretty awesome then), though completing certain dungeons require serious deckbuilding skills and alternative strats and also often need to be compensated with lots of hp and spirit.

I'm still 4 pow away from using magebane poison(pretty crucial charm in many dungeons) and I'm 2/3s through lvl 50 =P
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Wercool on 03:52:18 - 11/04/10
Quote
yea right now (lvl 13) im using twinblades spear lightning holy. it working so far. but i could switch pow and con
If I was l13 and I was using Axes, Maces or Fire Shadow, you'd have 0 chances against me because my runes have more damage in general.

You can easily switch stats before l20. You can do it even after, but it would cause some difficulties.
but what if we(I) toss in some armour and ward? your deck would die. mine wouldn't.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Kaervaak on 04:21:42 - 11/04/10
but what if we(I) toss in some armour and ward? your deck would die. mine wouldn't.

This is only true if your armor charms are more than twice as strong as his melee/magic charms (assuming you're playing both armor and ward and he is playing only melee or magic, not both). When you play an armor or ward rune, you don't do any damage and half of the time you don't defend against the right kind of attack. So in that time, he can play two attacking runes to your one. So unless you block more than twice the damage of a single charm, he's still coming out on top.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Blacksol on 13:16:17 - 11/04/10
but what if we(I) toss in some armour and ward? your deck would die. mine wouldn't.

This is only true if your armor charms are more than twice as strong as his melee/magic charms (assuming you're playing both armor and ward and he is playing only melee or magic, not both). When you play an armor or ward rune, you don't do any damage and half of the time you don't defend against the right kind of attack. So in that time, he can play two attacking runes to your one. So unless you block more than twice the damage of a single charm, he's still coming out on top.

err, actually defence is only effective 1/3rd of the time if you include spirit attacks (leaving aside dual/triple defence charms and shifting defence)
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Wercool on 16:02:47 - 11/04/10
but what if we(I) toss in some armour and ward? your deck would die. mine wouldn't.

This is only true if your armor charms are more than twice as strong as his melee/magic charms (assuming you're playing both armor and ward and he is playing only melee or magic, not both). When you play an armor or ward rune, you don't do any damage and half of the time you don't defend against the right kind of attack. So in that time, he can play two attacking runes to your one. So unless you block more than twice the damage of a single charm, he's still coming out on top.

err, actually defence is only effective 1/3rd of the time if you include spirit attacks (leaving aside dual/triple defence charms and shifting defence)
see thishttp://www.estiah.com/character/combat/replay/id/30022226/owner/86709 (http://www.estiah.com/character/combat/replay/id/30022226/owner/86709) is where maces die
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Thatguy on 19:35:48 - 11/04/10
but what if we(I) toss in some armour and ward? your deck would die. mine wouldn't.

This is only true if your armor charms are more than twice as strong as his melee/magic charms (assuming you're playing both armor and ward and he is playing only melee or magic, not both). When you play an armor or ward rune, you don't do any damage and half of the time you don't defend against the right kind of attack. So in that time, he can play two attacking runes to your one. So unless you block more than twice the damage of a single charm, he's still coming out on top.

err, actually defence is only effective 1/3rd of the time if you include spirit attacks (leaving aside dual/triple defence charms and shifting defence)
see thishttp://www.estiah.com/character/combat/replay/id/30022226/owner/86709 (http://www.estiah.com/character/combat/replay/id/30022226/owner/86709) is where maces die


I don't get it. He ran split damage, used mostly under-level and unoptimized charms (Aiming Axe?), and there wasn't even a mace in that deck so I don't see where you're getting at. Honestly it looked like he was trying to level off-skills lmao.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Zenetar on 21:40:12 - 11/04/10
see thishttp://www.estiah.com/character/combat/replay/id/30022226/owner/86709 (http://www.estiah.com/character/combat/replay/id/30022226/owner/86709) is where maces die

usual PvP sucks, you can get a true experience only by participating in coliseum or PvPing against coliseum players
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Wercool on 22:39:38 - 11/04/10
but what if we(I) toss in some armour and ward? your deck would die. mine wouldn't.

This is only true if your armor charms are more than twice as strong as his melee/magic charms (assuming you're playing both armor and ward and he is playing only melee or magic, not both). When you play an armor or ward rune, you don't do any damage and half of the time you don't defend against the right kind of attack. So in that time, he can play two attacking runes to your one. So unless you block more than twice the damage of a single charm, he's still coming out on top.

err, actually defence is only effective 1/3rd of the time if you include spirit attacks (leaving aside dual/triple defence charms and shifting defence)
see thishttp://www.estiah.com/character/combat/replay/id/30022226/owner/86709 (http://www.estiah.com/character/combat/replay/id/30022226/owner/86709) is where maces die


I don't get it. He ran split damage, used mostly under-level and unoptimized charms (Aiming Axe?), and there wasn't even a mace in that deck so I don't see where you're getting at. Honestly it looked like he was trying to level off-skills lmao.
ok by mace i just meen any charm with 0%p
see thishttp://www.estiah.com/character/combat/replay/id/30022226/owner/86709 (http://www.estiah.com/character/combat/replay/id/30022226/owner/86709) is where maces die

usual PvP sucks, you can get a true experience only by participating in coliseum or PvPing against coliseum players
well thats how i can get a true expeirence of coli. :P also notice that he attacked me so i didnt just pick someone i knewi could beat.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Keyar on 22:58:12 - 11/04/10
You beat someone who uses Dead Ash and Aiming Axe in pvp... gratz.
Anyway, good defense works really nice in the early lvls, but when you start to close in on lvl40 they become less and less effective as more cpb becomes available.

It's good to have your own opinion, but unless you have the experience, you should try and listen to those that do have it.
The thing that we're trying to say is that defenses isn't played later in the game, making piercing next to meaningless. It doesn't really matter if you think defense should be played more cuz it's good, the thing is we know for a fact it isn't used, cuz it's we who play in the high lvl of coli and pvp against the high lvl players.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Wercool on 04:39:12 - 11/05/10
You beat someone who uses Dead Ash and Aiming Axe in pvp... gratz.
Anyway, good defense works really nice in the early lvls, but when you start to close in on lvl40 they become less and less effective as more cpb becomes available.

It's good to have your own opinion, but unless you have the experience, you should try and listen to those that do have it.
The thing that we're trying to say is that defenses isn't played later in the game, making piercing next to meaningless. It doesn't really matter if you think defense should be played more cuz it's good, the thing is we know for a fact it isn't used, cuz it's we who play in the high lvl of coli and pvp against the high lvl players.
ok that makes since. but i think i still might try to run a defensive gear at higher levels
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Blacksol on 13:53:44 - 11/05/10
You beat someone who uses Dead Ash and Aiming Axe in pvp... gratz.
Anyway, good defense works really nice in the early lvls, but when you start to close in on lvl40 they become less and less effective as more cpb becomes available.

It's good to have your own opinion, but unless you have the experience, you should try and listen to those that do have it.
The thing that we're trying to say is that defenses isn't played later in the game, making piercing next to meaningless. It doesn't really matter if you think defense should be played more cuz it's good, the thing is we know for a fact it isn't used, cuz it's we who play in the high lvl of coli and pvp against the high lvl players.
ok that makes since. but i think i still might try to run a defensive gear at higher levels

Good luck.... I suggest an aura deck and therefore dont dump con.  You may also want to consider a class change to Heirarch (although that could be too late depending on what classes you have chosen so far)
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Dreamborne on 18:18:08 - 11/05/10
well then go ahead and try for yourself, but I would advice against it nevertheless, unless extremely lucky, no matter how much defense you draw, a good blood pact deck played by someone with high hp and spirit will most likely rip you a new one.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Keyar on 04:56:33 - 11/09/10
well then go ahead and try for yourself, but I would advice against it nevertheless, unless extremely lucky, no matter how much defense you draw, a good blood pact deck played by someone with high hp and spirit will most likely rip you a new one.

Though I recently got my ass handed to me when I bounty hunted jmackxiii who was using a debuff defense deck. I got 2 early blood pacts going and all 5 activated eventually but it still wasn't enough. It could, of course, be cuz he's far into lvl51 and has access to pretty much all charms, but still =P Though the deck would've been slaughtered by even a mediocre spirit deck...
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Dreamborne on 15:46:38 - 11/10/10
well then go ahead and try for yourself, but I would advice against it nevertheless, unless extremely lucky, no matter how much defense you draw, a good blood pact deck played by someone with high hp and spirit will most likely rip you a new one.

Though I recently got my ass handed to me when I bounty hunted jmackxiii who was using a debuff defense deck. I got 2 early blood pacts going and all 5 activated eventually but it still wasn't enough. It could, of course, be cuz he's far into lvl51 and has access to pretty much all charms, but still =P Though the deck would've been slaughtered by even a mediocre spirit deck...

ah yea, forgot about those, I actually gained like 1000 max pvp rating on my DK by playing that debuff deck, but still, with a decent melee cpb deck with say cfb, snt, voids etc a debuff deck has to have a real decent draw order to come out victorious, and the player playing it has to have a serious crapload of hp for the fight to be long enough, guess jmack kinda fits in that.

in the end, I abandoned the debuff deck on my DK and changed to spirit and still running some lesath doublehit bloodpact setup on my main and dont plan to change in close future. Will probably try a corcusating daggers + colithon weapons + exa talons + poisoner pride deck soon though.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Wercool on 23:18:19 - 12/07/10
well then go ahead and try for yourself, but I would advice against it nevertheless, unless extremely lucky, no matter how much defense you draw, a good blood pact deck played by someone with high hp and spirit will most likely rip you a new one.

Though I recently got my ass handed to me when I bounty hunted jmackxiii who was using a debuff defense deck. I got 2 early blood pacts going and all 5 activated eventually but it still wasn't enough. It could, of course, be cuz he's far into lvl51 and has access to pretty much all charms, but still =P Though the deck would've been slaughtered by even a mediocre spirit deck...

ah yea, forgot about those, I actually gained like 1000 max pvp rating on my DK by playing that debuff deck, but still, with a decent melee cpb deck with say cfb, snt, voids etc a debuff deck has to have a real decent draw order to come out victorious, and the player playing it has to have a serious crapload of hp for the fight to be long enough, guess jmack kinda fits in that.

in the end, I abandoned the debuff deck on my DK and changed to spirit and still running some lesath doublehit bloodpact setup on my main and dont plan to change in close future. Will probably try a corcusating daggers + colithon weapons + exa talons + poisoner pride deck soon though.
yea i'm accually making a slayer and a assasin so i think ill go for the debuff/defence deck on the slayer as it seems like they have more that would help the stratagy.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Lycansaviour on 03:22:06 - 12/08/10
Hi,  :) i'm relatively new to this game  ???, lvl 11 on my way to becoming a scout. since i've started i've had my eye on assassin and DK. i'm not sure which one to pick, though i'm leaning towards asssassins (hence my posting here) and i was wondering if an experienced assassin could maybe PM me or post here a general run down of an assassin. i.e.

Lvl 1-20 what stats to focus on, what jobs etc
lvl 20-30 same thing, what stats and weapons i should use
etc etc
i'm rather confused about which stats i should level, coz i don't wanna mess up my character. i'd like to create a successfull assassin, with a viable strategy and good stats.

i know i'm probably asking alot and sorry for the long message. any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Zenetar on 06:46:31 - 12/08/10
lvl1-20: master every skill possible, don't do any jobs
lvl 20-30:use scout class charms, master skills, don't do any jobs
lvl 30-40:use rogue class charms, master skills, do dex-int jobs. (like +4 dex, +2 int or smth like that)
?????
PROFIT!
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Blacksol on 12:23:12 - 12/08/10
lvl1-20: master every skill possible, don't do any jobs
lvl 20-30:use scout class charms, master skills, don't do any jobs
lvl 30-40:use rogue class charms, master skills, do dex-int jobs. (like +4 dex, +2 int or smth like that)
?????
PROFIT!

The master every skill dont do jobs bit  pretty much goes for every build!! Except if you want to pick T1 and T2 classes right at L20 and L30 you'll likely need to do some dex/int jobs in late teens and late 20s to make it
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Alastair on 08:34:00 - 12/09/10
Hi,  :) i'm relatively new to this game  ???, lvl 11 on my way to becoming a scout. since i've started i've had my eye on assassin and DK. i'm not sure which one to pick, though i'm leaning towards asssassins (hence my posting here) and i was wondering if an experienced assassin could maybe PM me or post here a general run down of an assassin. i.e.

Lvl 1-20 what stats to focus on, what jobs etc
lvl 20-30 same thing, what stats and weapons i should use
etc etc
i'm rather confused about which stats i should level, coz i don't wanna mess up my character. i'd like to create a successfull assassin, with a viable strategy and good stats.

L1-20: Level primarily early on with skills, supplementing a few jobs to fix stats for charms that look promising (Brutal and Diapason Axe are VERY handy at level, for instance). Farm Hitpoints out the wazoo.

l20-30: You have a class!  Unlike other classes, you're in a good position, because: run a deck primarily consisting of class charms (either magic or melee) and you win!  The "Fight" button should be repurposed for Scouts to "Win," because that's what they do. You might want to up your Power over your Int at this point--  this gives you access to Black Heart and Overheat, which are very handy in a magic deck. Early 20s (after you get Blue Dragon Bone), Magic is king. At 28, when Night Cloak opens up, Melee becomes alot better.  Minor in Spirit decks, since you can run'em good with that Dex/Pow distribution.

Con can be left low, since the way the metagame is at present (who knows what it'll be later ;)) Dex/Pow is much stronger than Con/Int.

l30-40: You have a new class again!  And, once more, your class rocks.  Run melee scout banes + rogue banes.  Watch the train be run on your opponents. Luckily, you're first in line, so no sloppy seconds!  Late 30s you'll want to up your int more, get that above your power.  On average, you can start fixing your stats to meet your tier requirements at around x7 level.  Melee wise you probably want to be running Fists and Swords primarily. Maybe a twin blade or two, but overall they're sub par at this level.

Get Strike ASAP, and run it ASAP. For groups, that is an awesome charm.  Also awesome are the Scabbards (Ice; Flame).  For double your pleasure, double your fun team up with a Rogue in 2s and a Rogue and a Guard in 3s. CHOO CHOOO. RAPE TRAIN.

l40: haha, you're used to winning, aren't you? Poor bastard, time to lose for a bit. Zerkers and Pyros are going to rape your face horribly, so now you get to feel what everyone else felt :P  Dex Power is still good, but don't forget the Int: not because you want to run the low 40s Twin Blades (What, are you silly?), but because you don't want to have to do alot of fixing later to run the mid/late 40s Twin Blades (they're finally sexy!).   Experiment a bit.

Throughout all of this: farm up HP (Extreme Gatherings, Exploration, Cheat Death, etc, etc, etc) so that you're not overtwinked by people who farm up everything and it's mother; farm up combat skills.  By your late 20s and late 30s, if you have the HPs, you should be able to use mediocre damage decks of sub level charms ( l22 pvp charms at l25+, l27 pvp charms at 30+, etc)  to beat up on scrubs in PVP to farm up both soul bits and combat skills.

Alternatively, you can go a Con third stat, with a power dump, but that'll hurt you later in T3 (Strength In Numbers == Awsum For Melee Groups, Celestial Sword == Awsum too).  I've seen a few con-tert Assassins do decent, but most of the highest rated Assassins are con dump-- Shroud, me, I THINK Ariel is, as well as Ornwhateverlth.  Yemonster is one of the few high con Assassins I know of.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Lycansaviour on 03:02:54 - 12/10/10
thax for everything i think i have an idea what to do now. only thing is every one says don't work jobs till higher lvls, but i've already worked heaps  :( i'm only lvl 12 tho, its not too late is it?
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Sparky on 03:07:20 - 12/10/10
thax for everything i think i have an idea what to do now. only thing is every one says don't work jobs till higher lvls, but i've already worked heaps  :( i'm only lvl 12 tho, its not too late is it?

It's never too late, don't worry, just try to refrain from working (pro-tip: use your daily "job" to move between cities and farm more dungeons/craft more charms ;) ) and take your time.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Lokey on 23:34:33 - 12/19/10
New Assassin Charms:

Widowmaker(Target enemy with lowest HP)
21 Melee (45% P)
+1 to target's banes
4 magic (60% P) during 7 turns. If HP is under 14%, consume effect to deal 46 magic (60% P) to all allies.

Requires Level 48
Twin Blades (R5)

--- Rip off of the Iniquisitors, although not bad. It's like a bane/delayed deflagaration...without the reduce life

Relentless Predator
Destroy 18 armor
36 Melee (45% P)
Focus: 1 on enemy with lowest HP during 5 turns. If target's HP is below 30%, consume effect and gain 1 extra action

Requires Level 48
Quickness (R3).

---Aura form of Assassinate, no synergy with the new WDCs...but then again, most assassins don't use Auras anyway :P
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Vader on 17:26:06 - 02/18/11
I will soon reach level 40 with stats to choose between assassin and deathknight.Can someone tell me why and in which way assassins are better?
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Zenetar on 19:09:58 - 02/18/11
I will soon reach level 40 with stats to choose between assassin and deathknight.Can someone tell me why and in which way assassins are better?
Deathknights own, assassins suck. [/thread]

Srsly, Assassins are more support-oriented for 2v2/3v3 melee parties because of Focus charms (Asassinate epecially, and highlvl twinblades)
Deathknights are decent in melee, but their main strategy in 2v/3v is spirit.

if you'r considering PvP/Coliseum route, Deathknights are way more stable than assassins. Though Assassins may have their own unique stuff around l50.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Sparky on 19:19:11 - 02/18/11
I will soon reach level 40 with stats to choose between assassin and deathknight.Can someone tell me why and in which way assassins are better?
If you want to just win without having to think much nor needing to farm a lot of charms and do funny things, DK is better yeah.
Now if you don't mind taking up on challenges and are ready to craft quite more than a spirit DK would need, if you want to do some more funny stuff and all, I'd say Assassins are way cooler for a gaming experience.

But seeing as you want to know how a class is "better than another", I guess you quite don't get it --> go DK if you want to survive.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Vader on 19:50:28 - 02/18/11
Thanks guys...I'll go Assassin way I guess.Support for melee 3v3 in coli and the charms seem good for PvE too.Not too interested in highest rating...never seen any Assassin or Deathknight there.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Sparky on 19:54:44 - 02/18/11
Lots of Deathknights among the best rated players really, lol.
Assassin is the cool choice though. Good luck with that.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Gothmogged on 01:17:27 - 02/19/11
Assassin seems like it might be a more interesting choice overall.  The DK Class charms have very poor longevity with an above average number of them being weak even at the minimum level.  That said, Slayer would open up strategy options that are not accessible otherwise and access to class charms that remain respectable at L50.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Wercool on 05:40:02 - 02/28/11
wasn't there a new high level non-class twinblade relleased?
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Alastair on 19:54:02 - 02/28/11
wasn't there a new high level non-class twinblade relleased?

There's Kiss of Lesath (http://www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Kiss_of_Lesath), prob. one of the best l50 Epics.  I like it more than Alcyone, personally. 

Kysin Coruscating Dagger (http://www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Kysin_Coruscating_Daggers) which is a cool mechanic. I can meet the conditional 75% of the time, so it's nothing to scoff at.

Infernal Parrying Daggers (http://www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Infernal_Parrying_Daggers) which is, uh, kinda a big ol' bowl of dicks.  Especially since Dragon Rage is also in the same dungeon, and it's sex and win.

Mind you, there's also Relentless Predator (http://www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Relentless_Predator), the Assassin/Champion awesome charm, which is just pure, undiluted awesome.

And that's about it for 'new' charms that I can think of off hand. At least the high level ones. I don't know if a new low level TB was put out or not, but if there was one, I'm sure the phrase 'big ol' bowl of dicks' would be apt.

Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Wercool on 16:46:45 - 03/01/11
i geuss there not as high level as i though but i was talking about the charms in theses shops.
http://www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Spiritualist_Lodge (http://www.progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Spiritualist_Lodge)
 http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Natural_Runes (http://progenitor-softworks.com/ew/index.php?title=Natural_Runes)
doesn't look like assasin got any though.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Wercool on 17:49:16 - 03/25/11
well i'm going for an assasin on my alt and i'm dumping strenth. because it only gets axe and fist both of which have next to no penetration (which i like(a lot)) so i'm going dex-int-con-str
Update: this doesn't work, Dex-int-con-pow failes at everything because all the charms that you can use stink. i'm now raising my power over my con to get access to swords and fist weapons
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Zenetar on 22:01:31 - 03/25/11

Update: this doesn't work, Dex-int-con-pow failes at everything because all the charms that you can use stink. i'm now raising my power over my con to get access to swords and fist weapons
that means nothing for Assassins. Dex-int stat spread before lvl 43-44 fails hard anyway.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Easternred on 14:03:44 - 05/30/11
wow ... alastair got his highlord title :o the first assassin who became a highlord? aniwei congratz to alastair :)
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Zenetar on 15:44:42 - 05/30/11
wow ... alastair got his highlord title :o the first assassin who became a highlord? aniwei congratz to alastair :)
he did that pretty long ago.
the other assassins that could got Highlord too and maybe succeeded are Shroud and Goth's alt. Not sure about them
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Alastair on 19:38:14 - 05/30/11
wow ... alastair got his highlord title :o the first assassin who became a highlord? aniwei congratz to alastair :)
he did that pretty long ago.
the other assassins that could got Highlord too and maybe succeeded are Shroud and Goth's alt. Not sure about them

Nah, not even a week ago, actually.  I had the max rating to run at it for awhile, but didn't think some of my alternate decks were good enough to stand up to the incoming destruction. Turned out I was wrong :)

Altho, I finally got HL on him around the point where I can run every charm in the game.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Zenetar on 20:05:31 - 05/30/11
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTI39N5hikJiEwMshJvL0_fAMaQI1M356J-ukeKQGiIaCy9wfqi&t=1)
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Fistulos on 19:48:31 - 08/10/11
How do you all feel about assassins being able to run with spirit / bane groups in the coliseum?
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Gothmogged on 20:52:57 - 08/10/11
wow ... alastair got his highlord title :o the first assassin who became a highlord? aniwei congratz to alastair :)
he did that pretty long ago.
the other assassins that could got Highlord too and maybe succeeded are Shroud and Goth's alt. Not sure about them

Callas got Highlord long ago, probably during the highlord wars.  I don't think he was the first assassin to do so, I think Hellmaster probably got it earlier than that.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Zenetar on 21:59:27 - 08/10/11
How do you all feel about assassins being able to run with spirit / bane groups in the coliseum?
at which level?
Both spi and bane require con dump, and most of the time assassins can't dump con heavily. so imo spirit is viable at lvl 47+ and banes at lvl 50
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Fistulos on 22:29:05 - 08/10/11
I'm thinking more at the high end, whether I'd be better off in the long run with the class charms of an assassin or a DK if I want to run spirit or banes at 50.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Zenetar on 04:40:05 - 08/11/11
Choose Inquisitor then.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Alastair on 08:16:35 - 10/14/11
I'm thinking more at the high end, whether I'd be better off in the long run with the class charms of an assassin or a DK if I want to run spirit or banes at 50.

They can. I run a bane 2 with my alt Misericordia on occasion, and they win decently enough.  But this is 51 level here, with being able to run every charm in the game.
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Themonarch on 18:31:00 - 02/17/12
So I’m coming back to Estiah after a looong time off and wanted to run w/ some of my alts and I’ve got a lvl 27 Scout with the following stats:

Power - 88
Intellect - 156
Dexterity - 171
Constitution – 136

I was originally planning on making him an Assassin which I think I could still do.  My question is can I keep power my dump?   Should I shoot for the 450 Dexterity, 400 Intellect, and around 350 each of Power and Constitution mentioned in the thread and if so where do I go from there?

Alternatively, how painful would it be to try and turn him into an Inquisitor?  They seem to be far and away the best 1v1 (from what I’ve read, really I have no clue).  I don’t have a great start on my power but I think it’s still early enough to change (purely speculation, no real experience to base this off of).

Alternatively, I have a level 13 in the works that could pretty easily be made into an Inquisitor if I really want one.

Thanks in advance for any help!
Title: Re: [Shelter of Silence] - "Last Blood Counts Most"
Post by: Zenetar on 18:50:41 - 02/17/12
1)Power-dump or not:

You won't have the difference between Pow or Con dump up to lvl 46-47. Except for the ability to run Spirit as an alternative deck and you need Power for it.

In late game, power is a preferred option if you are running melee (Haunted Fang, Celestial Sword, Strength in Numbers - all require Power). For melee banes, high level Fists are very useful. And you still have the Spirit option.
On the other hand, Con is good for Magic/Aura decks but no Assassin would get a real edge with them.

So, to my money, Power>>>Con. You need like 350 con @lvl 50 to pass Archeological Adventurer quest and that's it.

2)Yes, it's possible, but you'll have to keep your Con low because Inqs are usually Con-dump

___________
If I was you, I'd go for Warlord and dump Int. Warlords have a real edge in melee comparing to Assassins and equal to them in many other aspects. The only option that Warlord doesn't have is melee banes, but with [Gravity Spear] you can forget about it.